Why are some gun owners afraid of permitless concealed carry?

[Bill of Rights]

What about just having to show you completed nra basic pistol 1 or hell even pop guns training when you go to get a LTCH? That way it's unbiased because it's a private range/training program, not state run. I would hate to take a state police exam, one of my friends in Cali had to do that and he said it sucked hard. If you read my first post, I said I feel it should be required for carrying outside your property, which is a good idea I think. I don't care what some wreckless moron does with his guns on his land, but I would like to know that when I se someone out and about carrying that they at least know the basics. I love the fact that we don't have to register our names, how many weapons we own, what caliber.....etc. If that was the case I would move because if/when SHTF and martial law would come into play, they're comin to my house off the bat because I have quite an aresenal amassed.

If the range wants to make it mandatory to shoot there, that is their choice. If the state makes it mandatory to be permitted to exercise a basic, fundamental human right, that is an infringement and as such, along with the LTCH, is specifically forbidden by the Constitution, despite the interpretation of nine people in black robes.

We don't have actual gun registration in Indiana, that's true. If you think we don't have de facto gun registration, though, you're either naive, self-deluded, or plain stupid. I think one or both of the first two are likely, as you're obviously not stupid by any measure. So where is this gun registration we have? Your proof that you're aware of it is on that little pink paper in your wallet. The people who have those are better than 50% likely to own a firearm. Those people who own one likely own more than one, and they likely know more people who do likewise. This doesn't even consider the scene from the movie "Red Dawn" where the Russians went to the stores and pulled the 4473s to see who had bought what.

You say that you think training should be required to carry off of your own land. You have the right to think that. You have the right to put it into practice... for yourself. You even have the right to attempt to put it into law for everyone else as well, by contacting your legislator and instructing them to vote for such a measure on your behalf, if you so choose. You will find many more people in agreement with you amongst those who frequent and believe the information found at [noparse]www.bradycampaign.org[/noparse]. You will not find many who support those ideas and ideals here.

"Gun control" has often been said to not be about the guns, just the control.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[henktermaat]

...
"Gun control" has often been said to not be about the guns, just the control.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Vic_Mackey]

Bill, I see where you are coming from, I really do +1. I pretty much said the hell with the pistol training the military gave me because I hate Berettas, 9mm ball ammo, and the fact that I knew I was never going to use one in Iraq. So I definitely have some flaws with it, but as I am always learning, as I am with the Pro vs. Anti gun control battle, so YES, I an see where there would be some contradictions. I never claimed to be an expert in politics and policies, merely threw an idea out there that I think would work hahaha and I ended up kind of being a "villian" of sorts lmao (and I am lmfao, and all my coworkers looked at me funny). I'm not saying that the idea would be infallable, and protected from corruption, look at the stings the BMV did on those ladies getting illegals their DL's. I'm just looking for a way that we can ensure, or at least try, to keep everybody who chooses to carry safe.

I had to take training for work, but after the initial class, I can take more if I want to company paid, and I have some friends that are quite knowledgable instructors that hook it up from time to time. I train people with rifle marksmanship because that's my thing, but I think I'm getting hooked on handguns (probably because it's a little cheaper). But thats off the path I was on.


I look at both sides very heavily, and I side pro almost 99.9 percent of the time, the anti's can come up with some good arguments. That's why I don't put my two pennies in the jar very often, I teeter on the fence because who can say who's right and who's wrong? I just follow my gut instinct and see where it goes lol

 

[CarmelHP]

Indiana doesn't require any training for it's license to carry a handgun, where's all the accidents by licensed carriers? Did paying the fee make them knowledgeable and responsible? Same with Pennsylvania and many other states. If there any proof whatsoever of your thesis? Ant evidence anywhere that your list of horribles will come to pass?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Bill, I see where you are coming from, I really do +1. I pretty much said the hell with the pistol training the military gave me because I hate Berettas, 9mm ball ammo, and the fact that I knew I was never going to use one in Iraq. So I definitely have some flaws with it, but as I am always learning, as I am with the Pro vs. Anti gun control battle, so YES, I an see where there would be some contradictions. I never claimed to be an expert in politics and policies, merely threw an idea out there that I think would work hahaha and I ended up kind of being a "villian" of sorts lmao (and I am lmfao, and all my coworkers looked at me funny). I'm not saying that the idea would be infallable, and protected from corruption, look at the stings the BMV did on those ladies getting illegals their DL's. I'm just looking for a way that we can ensure, or at least try, to keep everybody who chooses to carry safe.

I had to take training for work, but after the initial class, I can take more if I want to company paid, and I have some friends that are quite knowledgable instructors that hook it up from time to time. I train people with rifle marksmanship because that's my thing, but I think I'm getting hooked on handguns (probably because it's a little cheaper). But thats off the path I was on.


I look at both sides very heavily, and I side pro almost 99.9 percent of the time, the anti's can come up with some good arguments. That's why I don't put my two pennies in the jar very often, I teeter on the fence because who can say who's right and who's wrong? I just follow my gut instinct and see where it goes lol

What you seem to want is to institute training for those who carry a firearm. I'm all for that. Let's start in the schools, say in First Grade. Teach basic firearms safety and marksmanship with single shot rifles on gun benches. Then in Second Grade, teach them a little more. By 5th Grade, they should be getting ready to start in a Pistol League. By High School, they should be able to compete in conventional USPA competitions without supervision. How's that for training?

 

[Eddie]

What you seem to want is to institute training for those who carry a firearm. I'm all for that. Let's start in the schools, say in First Grade. Teach basic firearms safety and marksmanship with single shot rifles on gun benches. Then in Second Grade, teach them a little more. By 5th Grade, they should be getting ready to start in a Pistol League. By High School, they should be able to compete in conventional USPA competitions without supervision. How's that for training?

Yeah, but then when some nutjob wanted to shoot up a school he couldn't do it because all of those children would be ready to defend themselves. We can't have that now can we?

 

[PatriotPride]

Yeah, but then when some nutjob wanted to shoot up a school he couldn't do it because all of those children would be ready to defend themselves. We can't have that now can we?

Think of the children. A child could never POSSIBLY learn how to handle a firearm responsibly. We have to safeguard the children's safety.

My mistake. Dead children must be better and more desirable than safely-trained children.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Think of the children. A child could never POSSIBLY learn how to handle a firearm responsibly. We have to safeguard the children's safety. ...

Nope. No way a child could learn to handle a firearm safely:

The young lady in this picture just recently turned 14. She is a Rifleman and an Instructor with the Appleseed project. She's been instructing since she was 11.
Her comment in a post she made with this picture

was:

A child teaching another child to shoot. What more could you ask for?

Sierra was a really good listener and she stuck though it till the end of saturday and came back on sunday and she even gave me a braclet she made and said she had a lot of fun and that she wants to come to another one. She was a sweet girl and i hope to see her again soon!

The youngest person involved in the fighting in April of 1775, when this country began, was eight. He was a drummer.

The youngest to die, as a fighting militiaman, was 11.

I saw that the quoted part of your post was in purple. I decided to answer it this way because I know some people actually believe what you wrote. Nothing like cold, hard facts to dispel false beliefs and untruths.
(and I wanted yet another opportunity to plug Appleseed! )

Blessings,
Bill

 

[PatriotPride]

^^^I love setting you up for the Spike, to borrow a term from volleyball. You always deliver Excellent post.

 

[jbombelli]

Too many people these days do not understand how our government works, or even who does what. Letting those fools vote is ruining this country.

I think anybody who wishes to register to vote should first be required to earn a degree in either political science or public administration, in order to teach them what they need to know in order to wade through all the BS and make an INFORMED vote.

 

[PatriotPride]

Too many people these days do not understand how our government works, or even who does what. Letting those fools vote is ruining this country.

I think anybody who wishes to register to vote should first be required to earn a degree in either political science or public administration, in order to teach them what they need to know in order to wade through all the BS and make an INFORMED vote.

Sarcasm?

 

[infidel]

You're ready, aren't ya PP?

 

[jbombelli]

Sarcasm?

Maybe. Or maybe I'm starting to warm up to the idea of "reasonable restrictions", thanks to some of the members around here.

 

[infidel]

Sarcasm?

You're ready, aren't ya PP?

Maybe. Or maybe I'm starting to warm up to the idea of "reasonable restrictions", thanks to some of the members around here.

Sick 'em boy!

 

[Vic_Mackey]

Nope. No way a child could learn to handle a firearm safely:

The young lady in this picture just recently turned 14. She is a Rifleman and an Instructor with the Appleseed project. She's been instructing since she was 11.
Her comment in a post she made with this picture

was:
"A child teaching another child to shoot. What more could you ask for?

Sierra was a really good listener and she stuck though it till the end of saturday and came back on sunday and she even gave me a braclet she made and said she had a lot of fun and that she wants to come to another one. She was a sweet girl and i hope to see her again soon!

"

The youngest person involved in the fighting in April of 1775, when this country began, was eight. He was a drummer.

The youngest to die, as a fighting militiaman, was 11.

I saw that the quoted part of your post was in purple. I decided to answer it this way because I know some people actually believe what you wrote. Nothing like cold, hard facts to dispel false beliefs and untruths.
(and I wanted yet another opportunity to plug Appleseed! )

Blessings,
Bill

That, sir, is beautiful. That is exactly what more people need to do with their children. I took my younger brother out when he was 9 to learn how to shoot. Bought him a Rossi 22/410 and after he comleted his hunter safety courses a few years later I got him a .20ga to go hunting with me and our dad. He was so into the whole thing that he began getting his friends involved and enrolled with the courses. I think we are going to have a group hunt this winter, that would be pretty sweet to get out there and show these kids how miserable hunting really is lol

 

[Bill of Rights]

That, sir, is beautiful. That is exactly what more people need to do with their children. I took my younger brother out when he was 9 to learn how to shoot. Bought him a Rossi 22/410 and after he comleted his hunter safety courses a few years later I got him a .20ga to go hunting with me and our dad. He was so into the whole thing that he began getting his friends involved and enrolled with the courses. I think we are going to have a group hunt this winter, that would be pretty sweet to get out there and show these kids how miserable hunting really is lol

I fully agree and I respect very much her father's commitment to ensuring her education and her own commitment to the program. (even though seeing how flexible she is with regard to the various shooting positions makes my joints ache. )

I'm not a hunter, but I applaud your efforts to bring new shooters into the sport.

Not to get religious, but I'm rather fond of a quote from Proverbs 22:6

Well played, sir.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[cqcn88]

Feelings? Maybe. Hard facts? Yes.

they are not based on my "feelings" like the first few pages of posts after someone puts something in the Politics section. The fact is this: Firearms are dangerous in unknowledgeable hands. Period. No getting around that fact. Would you want folks that are unwilling to learn about guns buying them and shooting them all over the place because they "dont know nun-better?"

I'm going with the statement that in Indiana, all it takes to get a permit is signing the dotted line and dishing out some cash. IMO its just a way for the state to make money and have an idea of who's carrying guns around. But that doesn't matter, since anyone with a clean background can buy a gun, regardless of knowledge of firearms. Personally I think most people that have a desire to handle a gun grew up around them, or have a little sense to learn how to not shoot themselves in the foot.

Even charging a fee to carry a gun counts as infringing my right to keep and bear arms IMO. The 2nd amendment should give us the right to carry a gun whenever/however we want with zero interference from the government. Don't get me wrong, I respect your right to an opinion, but I think if you're pro permits, you are against the 2nd amendment as its written.

 

[PatriotPride]

Maybe. Or maybe I'm starting to warm up to the idea of "reasonable restrictions", thanks to some of the members around here.

That's exactly the logic used by the Left. Being an idiot in and of itself does not bar you from your rights. Also, I would ask, when is a restriction ever "reasonable" when it comes to the 2nd Amendment. "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be UNREASONABLY infringed". That's got a nice ring to it, don't you think?

 

[dgiancola]

permits keep the evil in society from legally obtaining firearms...even though it doesnt always work, permits help.

 

[cqcn88]

permits keep the evil in society from legally obtaining firearms...even though it doesnt always work, permits help.

I've recently read that about 95% of crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns. I would say that permits hardly ever help, and the evil in society will get guns anyway.