What to expect when Ohio votes on abortion and marijuana

[Route 45]

I have no problem with them not producing any more babies. Also, fewer OHatians seems like a good thing. It's the murdering of them that depresses the **** out of me.

Fewer and fewer people consider it murder. This happened in Ohio, not Massabluesetts. That should be a clue for Republicans if they ever want to win another election that matters. Abortion is a losing issue.

 

[wagyu52]

You can not get rid of abortion by arguing with women.

You can win all the arguments, take all the moral high ground, yet they still have their abortions.

Learn from the democrats, handle abortion just like how they deal with illegal immigration. Win your elections first, do whatever you want.

You are not in charge until you are.

I’m not interested in adopting the political tactics of the democrats. That’s trading one tyrant for another.

Funny isn’t it all this talk about abortion being illegal, criminalized, going underground yet you can still get all the abortions you want.
Almost like roe v wade had absolutely nothing to do with guaranteeing abortion and everything with a power grab for states rights.
Isn’t deception one of the democrats favorite political tactics?

I digress, if Ohio wants it more power to them

 

[drillsgt]

Fewer and fewer people consider it murder. This happened in Ohio, not Massabluesetts. That should be a clue for Republicans if they ever want to win another election that matters. Abortion is a losing issue.

Fewer and fewer people are owning guns, pretty soon you'll tell us to just drop opposition to gun control too.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Fewer and fewer people are owning guns...

Um, isn't this the opposite of the truth? I've read a lot of thing recently saying gun ownership has gone way up in the last few years.

 

[LeftyGunner]

We already have a very robust, compulsory education system in place. Yet the very same demographics that come up pregnant are not proficient in basic math and English. They are going to somehow magically pay attention to THAT class even though they ignore the others?

you can lead a horse to water...

You make a solid point, and I have to agree. Education can only go so far…people have to make the effort to understand the information and apply the lessons with purpose in order for education to be effective.

Still, when It comes to the abortion issue specifically, I think it is important to focus efforts on the demand side of the equation...reducing the availability of abortion services does not reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, but reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies does reduce the demand for abortion services.

Pragmatically speaking, access to (and proper use of) birth control is one of the few things proven to result in reduced demand for abortion.

 

[Route 45]

Fewer and fewer people are owning guns, pretty soon you'll tell us to just drop opposition to gun control too.

I'm not surprised that you can't tell the difference between abortion and guns. Or that you are 100% wrong about the vast increase in the amount of gun owners in recent years.

 

[Twangbanger]

Most people were okay with the status quo until your side started pushing for extreme nonsense like abortions up to birth and even after birth, no notifications to parents etc etc. You have nobody to blame but your side that can never be satisfied. Just like your latest craze of just having to have drag queens in schools reading stories to kids no matter what.

There is extremism on both sides of this issue. It's good to remember that the more extreme elements on both sides are trying to move the status quo of this issue to a place where it has never existed in American history. "Life at Conception" has _never_ been the status quo in American law, even if you go back to the "founding fathers" era. The original status quo was that abortion wasn't considered illegal until the mother could feel the baby moving, which is to say, the timing and ultimate legality of it were left up to factors only the woman was in a position to determine. The American historical position on this issue is actually closer to the "Trimester" standard employed by RvW, than the reasoning of either the "Life at Conception" or "Abortion until Birth" camps on this issue.

"B-b-b-but medical technology!!!" The big change we're trying to work through now is that the Modern Pro Life movement thinks ultrasound technology makes this issue into "Slavery 2.0." They thought modern medical and scientific evidence would elicit a "moral enlightenment" in the minds of Americans. But it's not succeeding. It's really more analogous to Alchohol Prohibition than Slavery, in that an interest group is trying to outlaw something that has never been universally illegal, and the public doesn't want it to be. One side thinks abortion is a "Dred Scott Slave Decision" that the public will eventually "wake up from." But the country seems to be headed the other way, by a non-overwhelming, but yet significant and persistent margin.

 

[GasTube138]

Most Americans want legal drugs and abortions. Do they want abortion until birth? Maybe not. But if they're getting ads from one party selling it as "just normal abortion" they'll vote for it. They get told "oh that never happens" and they don't pay attention.


Even some of those who are more "right" still want those things, on some level. The country is a lot more Centrist than we're told. But those who don't pay attention get swindled into voting certain ways.


Whoever advertised better gets results usually. Most of the country just does what they're told.

 

[LeftyGunner]

I guess that I, along with many pro-life people, got the old petard treatment for insisting that abortion be a States' issue. This radical of a constitutional amendment would never pass on a federal level. Would it?

I don’t think this type of amendment would pass at the national level.

I think RvW was bad jurisprudence that served a necessary pragmatic purpose. Repealing it was the right thing to do from a constitutional perspective, but it left an awful practical vacuum, and I think we are watching that play out before us now.

The majority of abortions today are pharmaceutically-induced miscarriages that are performed well before 20 weeks of pregnancy. Pragmatically, I think most Americans are willing to accept this.

The waters get muddier the farther you stray from that small point of begrudged agreement, though…especially once the fetus has reached the point of viability...I think most Americans would agree that once an unborn child can survive with minimal medical assistance outside the womb even an unwanted pregnancy should be carried to delivery unless there is a valid medical reason to intervene.

Personally, I think late-term abortions should only be performed if absolutely medically necessary…but I think medical necessity is something that can only be determined by an attending physician and a mother in a crisis pregnancy in real time…not by a committee of lawmakers trying to curry favor with ideologically motivated voters.

 

[drillsgt]

I'm not surprised that you can't tell the difference between abortion and guns. Or that you are 100% wrong about the vast increase in the amount of gun owners in recent years.

According to your argument there is no difference and we should just defer to popular public opinion if we want to get Republicans elected. Based on the data you look at there hasn't been a vast increase in gun owners over the years and there has actually been a decline in gun owning households, we have seen a ton of sales but that doesn't necessarily mean a lot of new gun owners. It was one benefit of covid and the summer of love riots we may have gotten a few more if they haven't sold their guns by now.

 

[loudgroove]

With abortion, it's a life that could be here, but someone decided that it was too much of an inconvenience to have it here. There forth it isn't here. You can call it murder or you could call it reproductive rights. Either way a life isn't here due to inconvenience. As long as it is or could be legal. Some selfish people are going to want it to be an option due to convenience!!! Take Canada's government assisted suicide. Yes it's a real thing. Their medical field is so messed up due to government regulations, that not many people want to work in it anymore. So it's more convenient to help these people kill themselves than have them wait for months for a Dr. visit. Morals has gone down the toilet these days.

 

[oze]

Fewer and fewer people consider it murder. This happened in Ohio, not Massabluesetts. That should be a clue for Republicans if they ever want to win another election that matters. Abortion is a losing issue.

I really don't give a flying **** if "fewer and fewer people consider it murder", nor do I think that it is true. It is morally murder to me, and I will not budge from that.

I've seen posters on this very board proclaim that "we should burn it down and start over" even if it means voting "RINOs" out of office, and this for the perceived sin of voting for or against a budget issue. As I've said, I cannot vote for any pro-abortion candidate, least of all a Democrat one. But to me, and all snark aside, there is nobody more RINO than a pro-abortion Republican. Candidate or constituent.

 

[oze]

On the bright side, the annual Shelton's fireworks trip just got more interesting

No more of my money going to the OHatians. Not even for gummies.

 

[oze]

On a practical, political level (morals aside), what's the downside of leftists not producing any more babies?

They've got the education system. They'll make more.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

There is extremism on both sides of this issue. It's good to remember that the more extreme elements on both sides are trying to move the status quo of this issue to a place where it has never existed in American history. "Life at Conception" has _never_ been the status quo in American law, even if you go back to the "founding fathers" era. The original status quo was that abortion wasn't considered illegal until the mother could feel the baby moving, which is to say, the timing and ultimate legality of it were left up to factors only the woman was in a position to determine. The American historical position on this issue is actually closer to the "Trimester" standard employed by RvW, than the reasoning of either the "Life at Conception" or "Abortion until Birth" camps on this issue.

"B-b-b-but medical technology!!!" The big change we're trying to work through now is that the Modern Pro Life movement thinks ultrasound technology makes this issue into "Slavery 2.0." They thought modern medical and scientific evidence would elicit a "moral enlightenment" in the minds of Americans. But it's not succeeding. It's really more analogous to Alchohol Prohibition than Slavery, in that an interest group is trying to outlaw something that has never been universally illegal, and the public doesn't want it to be. One side thinks abortion is a "Dred Scott Slave Decision" that the public will eventually "wake up from." But the country seems to be headed the other way, by a non-overwhelming, but yet significant and persistent margin.

Abortion is far more analogous to slavery than is is to Prohibition.

Slavery was also legal right from the founding of our country.

Slavery was also hinged upon a question of how you define a human person with human rights, and whether or not some creatures that are objectively homo sapiens are somehow "less human" or have some sort of lower or lesser rights than other homo sapiens.

On the other hand, I agree with your analysis on where this country is headed, unfortunately.

 

[Gabriel]

Trust me. Anyone in this state who wants to smoke pot, does smoke pot.

That may be true, but they shouldn't have to do it illegally.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Personally, I think late-term abortions should only be performed if absolutely medically necessary…but I think medical necessity is something that can only be determined by an attending physician and a mother in a crisis pregnancy in real time…not by a committee of lawmakers trying to curry favor with ideologically motivated voters.

Isn't that essentially what the current law in Indiana is? I'm not aware of any committee of law makers set up that has to pre-approve abortions to save the life of the mother. The way the law is written, the doctor makes the decision, and if the state thinks something criminal was done, the onus is on the prosecutor to prove that the abortion wasn't necessary.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

They've got the education system. They'll make more.

You've got that one right.

I've personally known to many conservatives from one or two generations ahead of me who seemed to think we could just rest easy, and eventually all the lefties would abort or contracept themselves out of existence, then our country would return to sanity. All the while sending their children off to leftist indoctrination camps.

 

[breakingcontact]

Ohio vote reminds us - we do not want THIS much democracy.

 

[BugI02]

I am ashamed for my state. By having weed and abortion on the same ballot they guaranteed maximum turnout voting in favor of both

I am unaware of any society that gave itself entirely over to hedonism surviving for long