What to do....

[RachelMarie]

Not sure where this goes, ,so if need be...feel free to move this!

We drove out to NWI on Monday to see friends and family. I was driving on 65 when my husband informed me we had to get on 80-94. I got off at an exit in Merriville so he could take over driving.
While pulling into a gas station, I noticed movement in the Mcdonalds parking lot and looked over. There were 2 cars facing the road as if they were pulling out of the parking lot. Both drivers of the vehicles were out of there car along with a good 10 other people standing around.
There were a group of 3+ girls beating the crap out of the driver of the first car(another female). They were all over this girl. Had her by the back of the head and repeatedly beating her in the face. At one point, I saw the smashing her head into the back of the car...over and over.
Of course, I called the police and told them to get there.....and quick. I thought for sure they were going to kill her and told the police that.
Doug wanted to go over there and see if he could help that girl, but I told him no. We had our daughter in the car, and they KNEW I called the police. There were too many people over there and I was afraid he might get jumped as well. I don't know if that was the right move, but I couldn't send him over there not knowing if one of the bystanders was armed etc
.
I don't have my ltch yet so NO firearm. Even if I did have a firearm, I'm not sure if I would/should have tried to interfere. Should I have? Was I in the wrong? I should I have handled this? I feel bad, like maybe I didn't do what I should have. Please give me your input.
I had never seen anyone get beat that bad...ever. I never want to see anything like that again. I'm a lover, not a fighter.
Whatever the reason was that they were fighting was personal. The girls doing the beating kept yelling "You know what you did *****!!" I'm sure the one getting beat wasn't "innocent", but I doubt she deserved that and it broke my heart!

+100 for the police....they were there quickly and seemed to get it under control. When we left there where 13 squad cars and an ambulance.

Tell me if I handled this right...and if not, what I should have done differently!


TIA


RM

**Give me a break on grammer, I'm using my MIL computer and it's wierd!

This keyboard SUCKS....the title is even spelled wrong. NOT my fault!

 

[SC_Shooter]

Great call not to add more potential victims to that mess. It's always a judgement call as to when a person jumps into someone else's fight and when they don't. The fact that your family is safe tells me you made a good call.

Even armed, jumping into someone else's fight is almost always a bad call - just ask any LEO you know how much they like domestic calls (read into that "someone else's fight"). My guess is that when people are attacking someone in the open they are not going to be very likely to just stop and run away because a bystander tells them to, which is why there were so many units dispatched to the scene. I suspect they would have probably attacked your husband too for 'interfering' with their plan. It could have gotten ugly in a hurry.

Good call. Based on what you described, I'd have done the same.

 

[Dogman]

Sounds like you did the right thing. Even if you were armed there were too many people for one or two bystanders to step in. You called the police, they got there and handled it. Some times the best thing is to be a good witness.

 

[Boilers]

This is the perfect application for OC/Pepper spray GRENADES. If I were to have some sort of means of deploying a CLOUD of pepper spray, this would be a situation that I would use them in.

Yesterday I found myself near a swarm of police arriving at Walgreen's in Southport. Shoplifter. (unlike you, I was armed)

 

[kludge]

I would NEVER (almost) jump into a fight - even armed.

You did the right thing.

A gun would probably not have helped this situation. OC spray, and lots of it, maybe, but it's somthing that would probably result in a law suit. (IN Code says you will be in no legal jeopardy, but anyone can file a civil suit regardless of what the law says.)

Somwhere on one of these gun boards is a VERY bad story about someone who helped save another guys life. Let's just say he paid dearly.

 

[Bubba]

Good work on being the best witness you could be. Keeping your family safe is always job one. Even alone and even if you had been armed, though, engaging this situation would be a bad call IMHO. 1 or 2 vs. 12+ can only have bad results:
a) you are overpowered and beaten mercilessly
b) you are overpowered and they take your weapon and kill you/someone else with it
c) you are forced to engage your attackers with deadly force. Since you willingly closed with the hostile group, defending your actions by claiming a disparity of numbers would be a tough sell to a jury. I wouldn't want to be your lawyer.

ETA: oh, and better be really fast at reloading. You can't count on one shot stops.

 

[Jay]

You did right. Take care of you and yours, then do the best you can with what you've got. You are NOT a LEO. Acting like one in this case would've only resulted in trouble.

 

[lovemywoods]

Good decision!

Your personal situation touches on a sticky part of everyone's decision to be in charge of their personal security. Because most people (i.e. 'unarmed people') lack the ability to use force in a situation, they never have to consider the type of scenario you found yourself in. They just stand by and watch....

From the safety of our keyboards, it's easy to declare that we would always defend those around us. When performing their Monday morning quarterback analysis of one mall shooting, many people talked how they would confront the bad guy(s). In many scenarios, that would be a dumb thing to do.

The reality is that my first priority is to protect my family. Once they are safe, I still have an obligation to protect me! If I get hurt or killed, it harms my family. Protecting me is part of protecting my family.

After that, I can consider weighing the risks and potential benefits of inserting myself into someone else's business.

You did the right thing by calling the police after you were sure your family was in no danger.

 

[Andyccw]

I would have done the same thing. The best part of the decision is keeping your family safe, while still helping by calling police for help.
-Andy

 

[USMC_0311]

You did great.
Since you do not ahve LTCH yet.
Makes one think about a trunk gun. (Shotgun)

 

[public servant]

In another thread, 3 Mexican walk towards a car...they make no threats or display no aggressive behavior and it's OK to pull a gun...but an individual is getting the crap beat out of them (slamming one's head onto a vehicle would fall under serious bodily injury in my book) and it's not here?

What am I missing here? RM, of course I understand you didn't have yours yet...but to those that replied...why exactly are you carrying that weapon?

 

[Scutter01]

What am I missing here? RM, of course I understand you didn't have yours yet...but to those that replied...why exactly are you carrying that weapon?

A previous poster mentioned that their duty is to protect their family and themselves, first. If they were to engage, they would be violating that first duty. 13-on-1 is a no-win situation, regardless of the weapon at your disposal, and is significantly different from the situation you mentioned. I like to think that I would have called the police and then been a good witness from a distance, probably with a weapon unholstered and ready (or at least very near to hand) in case the perpetrators attempted to engage ME.

I would like to hear comments from those people, though.

 

[public servant]

Understood. But her family was safe and secure in the vehicle with her spouse. At what point do we assume a moral responsibility to assist? Do we just stand idly by while a person is beaten to death?

Again...I understand that in her case the point is moot because she had no weapon...but if she (or one of us) had?

 

[joslar15]

Nothing like a good catfight!

Seriously, my wife and daughter would have been like you, telling me not to get involved and simply call the police. However, if she was getting the major beatdown you describe, I could not simply wait on the police. On that note, something else I would have done would be to lay on the horn and draw attention to others in the McDonalds, in the hope that others would help me break it up.

 

[Scutter01]

Understood. But her family was safe and secure in the vehicle with her spouse. At what point do we assume a moral responsibility to assist? Do we just stand idly by while a person is beaten to death?

Again...I understand that in her case the point is moot because she had no weapon...but if she (or one of us) had?

Her family was safe, but if she waded into the fight, she would put herself (and by extension, her family) into unnecessary risk. I don't know where the moral line is.

 

[MountainDewed]

61st and Broadway... Great area. Public Servant I am guessing you are a LEO, if I was in her shoes except no family and decided to help this person out if I had to discharge my firearm to protect myself what types of crap would I be bringing on myself? I would have felt the need to help but would have been hesitant in fear of legal or civil headaches, I can not afford to defend myself in court because I was a Good Samaritain (sp)

 

[USMC_0311]

Understood. At what point do we assume a moral responsibility to assist? Do we just stand idly by while a person is beaten to death?

This is very personal choice that is dictated by the circumstances.
If it were me and family is with me I am not sure I could intervene unless I know they are out of harms way. Then yet I have to decide if me losing my life is going to jeopardize my family even more so. I know what I want to do (that’s go to the trunk gun and engage) hopefully being persuasive enough so the bad guys dis-engage. Tough call, what if you fail and your family’s vehicle fails?

 

[lawrra]

Understood. But her family was safe and secure in the vehicle with her spouse. At what point do we assume a moral responsibility to assist? Do we just stand idly by while a person is beaten to death?

Again...I understand that in her case the point is moot because she had no weapon...but if she (or one of us) had?

I believe that it is up to the individual as to whether or not they should become involved, and whether we are physically/mentally capable of a positive outcome. Some may be too nervous to intervene, while others wouldn't hesitate step in. If I was with my family, I would have done the same as the OP, but with a firearm readily accessible. If I was alone, I would have stepped out of my vehicle while on the phone with the dispatcher and gripped my pistol so that I would be ready if I was targeted. If I was with a group of friends we would do our best to calm the situation without escalating it.

Also, would the actions of the girls in this situation be considered a felony (assault and battery?)? I faintly remember some Indiana code regarding the use of deadly force in order to stop a felony or to protect a third party from severe injury.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Good call Rachel, the cops sounded like they had it under control. I think in a situation like that, you did right: stay in the car, stay in control, no flying off handle, no interaction with gang. If they got rowdy with your car, you can always drive off.

If they did get out of control on Me, personally, I like the gun the engine, pull the handbrake, lock the wheel and let the quarter panel of my Sonata do the talkin...

 

[Lucas156]

61st and Broadway... Great area. Public Servant I am guessing you are a LEO, if I was in her shoes except no family and decided to help this person out if I had to discharge my firearm to protect myself what types of crap would I be bringing on myself? I would have felt the need to help but would have been hesitant in fear of legal or civil headaches, I can not afford to defend myself in court because I was a Good Samaritain (sp)

This is what is wrong with society today. Somebody is at risk of getting killed or being injured for life and no one can do anything because if you help someone in need the law punishes you for it. We shouldn't punish good deeds but you know what they say, "no good deed goes unpunished"