What do you think about church?

[foszoe]

No badgering. No preaching. I'm genuinely curious of what people think. Just not for you? Full of hypocrites? Bad experience? Not enough proof? Maybe when I'm older and I want to settle down? My vision for this thread is to not deteriorate into bickering. I just want a lot of people to say their thoughts and move on. I will not quote anybody and post a big response of why I think they are right or wrong. I hope others on INGO can show the same respect to others. I want to know people's experience. I want to know why people walk away from church or never go in the first place.

First, a quote. This quote is good to ponder when the "seeker" is really more intent on tearing down the believer rather than a sincere questioner. It can be used though for the person that says there is "not enough proof", if there is a genuine desire to seek proof.

"Usually the most sensual men inquire about the greatest divine mysteries. They do not inquire about that in order to know how they can be saved, but rather to confuse the faithful and to ridicule the Faith, and to justify their own sinful and passionate life. Unable to raise themselves to the first rung of the heavenly ladder, they fantasize about the last rung. Brethren, when such as these inquire about the profoundest mysteries of the regeneration of the soul and the Kingdom of Heaven, ask them, first of all, to fulfill the ten basic commandments of God. If they do this, then their souls will be opened to the understanding of the Divine Mysteries, inasmuch as that understanding is necessary for the cleansing of their sins and passions, and for eternal salvation." -St Nicholai Velimirovic

To those who say "just not for me?" or its variations. My job is not to make it for them. That is the work of the Holy Spirit. I am to live the Christian life as a witness, how ever poorly.


For those who say the church is full of hypocrites, i am sure they can recognize this is in all likelihood a false statement. Its also an excuse that seems to be applied uniquely to church attendance.

So what do I think about Church?

i think about Church the way a lot of people here think about the Constitution. For many Americans, including those on here, I think the Declaration of independence, the Constitution, and the federalist papers constitute a religion.

I will now flesh this out a little.

You only have to be a member here for so long to find out that modern day interpretations of the 2nd amendment are taken to task because what it meant then isn't what it means now. One must read the writings of the saints, er founding fathers (federalist papers), to understand what was really meant by scriptures, er the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. We recite the Creed, er Pledge of Allegiance. We all make our pilgrimages to the Holy Sites to see statutes and monuments erected to our Saints, er founding fathers, in DC. We believe our institutions should honor the original intent of what was written and not change it on a whim.

I think the same way about Church, nutshelled and presented below in brevity so forgive any offense.

The Church was founded by Christ through his Apostles. The Church produced the scriptures, DoI and C, which weren't even finalized until 367 AD. If we don't understand the scriptures, we should at least be interested in how the earliest Christians, er founding fathers, understood them. If the early Christians had 7 Councils producing documents, ie federalist papers, we should at least show an interest in what was written. We should at least wonder if our English translation accurately reflects the original language. We should question why some Bibles have fewer books than much older bibles. Even the original KJV contained more books than most modern Versions. If one does, then one should seriously look at Orthodox or Roman Catholic perspectives as they are the only two bodies that claim Apostolicity.

The rise of the Papacy and the juridical views of salvation began by Anselm of Canterbury snowballed into an eventual revolution where instead of one church with a pope, you had many congregations full of popes, who if they didn't like what they heard, formed another congregation until today, in American Christianity, finding a Church has become a shopping event where a person goes with a list to check off what they want in a church.

The Church's primary function is to worship God. Making me feel good about myself or happy in my situation is not a role of the Church. The Church is not a museum for saints, its a hospital for sinners. i go to receive spiritual nourishment and medicine. I don't expect a perfect congregation or a pastor that makes me feel ok about myself or whose preaching always uplifts me. That is a characteristic of modern Protestantism. I can hear good messages on the radio or podcasts, but I can't woship God in community every day of the week at any time of the day.

An old Russian proverb says No one is saved alone. Psychology tells us the importance of involving other people in quitting smoking, drinking too much or overcoming many difficulties in life. We probably can think of several things/challenges that our families helped up overcome yet when it comes to salvation, we believe we can go it alone.

So the Church is One (United), Holy (Set Apart for the worship of God), Catholic (meaning according to the whole, universal), Apostolic (practicing the faith as handed down by the Apostles through the laying on of hands and teaching of Apostolic Tradition from which come the scriptures)

The Church is Orthodox (right worship, right belief).

That is a nutshell version of what I think about Church. I mean no offense and apologize if my concern for brevity is falsely interpreted as haughty or hateful or an attack on any single person as that was not my intent.

 

[BE Mike]

Most folks don't have a clue as to what Christianity is all about. It is sad to see how many folks readily take the words of men to heart and reject the word of God. The road to salvation doesn't come by being good or sacrificing. There are many bible passages telling us to regularly commune with one another. If a person is to grow in faith and understanding, he or she needs to attend church. If a person's expectations are too high, he or she will be disenchanted with church because everywhere one looks, one sees sinners of all types. Some are really nice folks and others are haughty, self-centered, gruff and mean. I attend church because I'm told it is a good thing. It ain't a perfect place and there is strife. The pastors are far from perfect. I certainly don't always agree with decisions, but for the most part, I understand that most decisions are made with good intentions. It is just like a family and at times dysfunctional. I wouldn't attend just any church. IMHO, there are churches and denominations where the beliefs have no basis in scripture. I'm not a fan of prosperity preachers or many tv evangelists. If I'm going to donate to a church, I want to make sure that the people handling the funds are good stewards of the money. I have come to believe that there really is power in prayer and that when we (the church) pray, it is a joy to God. I like music in church, but I think when singing and music become entertainment, rather than a way to praise the Lord, then that is a problem. My church has a lot of outreach and does a lot to support those in need (both spiritually and physically). Most people have no idea how much effort goes on all the time at churches to help people of many different needs. If all a person does is go sit in a pew every now and then he or she may never know just what opportunities are at church where talents are used by God. Going to church is all about growing.

 

[IndyDave1776]

This is truly a large question. The first issue is that of separating church from faith. As I understand the question, it is one of taking a look at organized gatherings of professing believers and evaluating their effectiveness and genuineness in the pursuit of propagating and adhering to faith in Christ.

For a quick tour of my personal experience, my early exposure was quite similar with Paul's. My mom's second husband was a marginally observant son of devout Catholic parents, and I had spells of rigid attendance at Mass punctuated by periods of not so rigid attendance. Some people are critical thinkers from birth and for others it is an acquired habit, and I fall into the latter camp, so it took me a couple of years longer to make the same observations that Paul shared, but I eventually did come to see a problem with the program being so orchestrated and geared to 'going through the motions' that there was a laminated card in the pew along with the hymnal that outlined the order of service including cues for when to alternately sit, stand, or kneel. Rather than drift in the atheist direction, I just drifted until taken in hand by a neighbor who took me to church with him and I became acquainted with such things as the concept of a personal relationship with Christ and salvation by grace through faith as a personal matter rather than eternal destiny by membership or nonmembership in an organization.

Since that time, I have had a number of experiences with church that, well, you could say were good while they lasted. Invariably, things will go sideways, and sometimes enough so to require moving on. Unfortunately, money and personal position are often the foundation upon which these problems rest. After being comfortable for a while, the nastiness of the internal politics at a level that the participants generally try to hide from the 'sheep' became a problem with the behavior associated with a construction project becoming the final straw. In the end, it let to a full-blown split in the church. At the next church, the deacons' legalism among themselves started spilling over into pressuring it upon others. I hadn't been there long enough to get too attached when being sized up at the door regarding whether or not I met dress code (!) led me to go elsewhere. Oh, I was wearing trousers with a sweater over a dress shirt, as opposed to marginally evading public decency laws. (I almost forgot to mention that when the subject of joining the church was brought up, I was handed a several pages long application for membership.) The next stop was a new start which split from the last church. I learned the hard way that people who agree in their disagreement with a given situation do not necessarily agree with how things should be. It was nice while it lasted, but it didn't last indefinitely. After that, and a move from the west side of the state to Plainfield, I found a church where I was happy for a time. No real complaints but it just wasn't the right fit and had started to suffer from growth.

The next stop, which lasted until I moved several years later, was probably the most interesting in that I was ready for a change but not sure where to go. One Tuesday evening, I was eating a sandwich at an overtly Christian coffee shop that opened near my home when a Bible study started up around me. For the second time, I found myself involved in a new church starting. This one worked well and is still there although it never really grew. Then again, it was never conducive to people who were there for a number of the less than ideal reasons which have been explored in this thread. At least this time the problem removing me from the church had nothing to do with the church, but rather that I discovered after moving that driving an impractical distance to church just doesn't work, particularly given that it eliminates one's ability to participate beyond showing up on Sunday morning. From there, I ended up having some changes in my own direction and becoming acquainted with a church where I was satisfied, Unfortunately, rather than following the traditional pattern of growing until the people who are not constructively participating take over by outvoting the truly active members, it went through several boom/bust cycles with some internal conflicts that eventually choked out what had been a good ministry. At the same time, I had developed relationships with several other churches and was enjoying the golden age of my church experience. I feel obligated to point out that much of my own position was based on the realization that most churches tend to be really good at one thing, and then decide that this one thing is what it's all about, which is the root of much denominational conflict. The bottom line is that, as I see it, no one owns the patent on God and personal discernment is the critical element which applies here.

My church experience took a nose dive starting just before I joined INGO. In fact, I became acquainted with INGO by meeting a member at Gander Mountain in Terre Haute while making a shopping trip as a distraction from other things. December 27, 2011 was a really bad day for me. It was a Tuesday. I had just arrived in Brazil on Saturday from Evansville. Since I worked for a company that produced pavement sealer, it was very unusual to work past Thanksgiving, but it was an unusual year. I had Christmas with mom and grandma on Sunday. Monday night, I was out late visiting with a friend I hadn't seen in ages, and Tuesday morning, I got woke up earlier than I would have preferred with a friend calling on the phone, so I ended up just getting up early. Had you been there to ask me at that point, I probably would have told you that I expected at least another 20 years with mom, given that she was 58 at the time. What I didn't know was that I had only about 20 minutes. She wasn't feeling well and wanted to check her blood pressure and pulse. I never worried too much about her health. She was a nurse, so I figured that if there were a problem, she would know about it and act accordingly. It is difficult to check your own blood pressure, so I went through the motions and she did the thinking, and it came out good. While explaining to me how to check pulse, she dropped of a heart attack right in front of me. While she lasted 8 days in a coma, she was for all practical purposes gone at that point.

As this happened, every church with which I had a significant connection within an hour's driving distance was having some kind of internal meltdown. I found myself surrounded by people who were inclined to lean on me in bad times when I wasn't able to lean on myself.

I had been told that preaching a funeral service is not an easy thing to do. There is much truth to that, as I discovered. Mom got the funeral service she would have wanted, but after doing that, I don't think I could preach a funeral for a complete stranger, let alone someone for whom I felt any sense of bereavement.

My employers at the time, two brothers, are completely awesome people. I don't know how I would have survived this without them. I also became pretty active with the middle school program in the church attended by one of them. I had some road trips under my belt driving the bus for them, but I started investing much more of myself--of course, how does one not make time for really great kids who are trying to live their lives the right way? I really miss talking to them every day, but things change. They felt the need to sell their business in 2013, and at the same time, my dad and I had rebuilt our relationship (BTW, mom and dad had been divorced since 1978) to the point that dad bought a Peterbilt for me to drive, so I ended up coming home just in time to have a couple of months with him before losing him to a brain aneurysm in November 2013. Thankfully he had a pastor who had spent a lot of time with him and was able to conduct an excellent service for him. As that goes, dad coming to faith a couple of years before his departure played a significant role in the restoration of our relationship. We had a phone conversation after a couple of years of not speaking at all. I don't remember which way it went, but one of us had accidentally hit the wrong speed dial on the phone. We ended up having dinner together one night, and I sat there eating while listening to him tell me how he had been going to church and had come to salvation, and had me wondering who kidnapped my dad and brought me this stranger!

This all leads to where I am today. I accept the Bible (translation foibles notwithstanding) as the inspired and unerring Word of God. I have a lot of questions about the extend to which God is concerned about the minutiae of my life or anyone else's. The scripture says that He knows when a sparrow falls from the sky, but that does not specify anything beyond knowing. I have seen some pretty consistent patterns in churches. The rule of thumb is that 90% of the work in any church is done by 10% of the members. I have found this to be true in any church that grows past 100 members. One of two things will happen: Either this will happen or the church will not grow because it isn't conducive to nonparticipant passengers. It takes a strong pastor to make a church work. Unfortunately, a strong pastor can make a church work for good OR for ill, and I have seen both in practice. When a church fills up with passengers, its operating overhead will necessarily grow proportionately, which generally leads to new buildings, more expenses, and more need to keep the attendance, hence offering, up, and in turn to more pandering to the marginal attendees. I am not saying that there aren't any good churches, just that there are powerful forces nearly as rigid as the laws of physics which must be overcome to maintain one, and constant vigilance is very necessary.

All of this leaves me at the point where the fire is out, everyone has gone home, the wreckage is getting cool enough to work with, and now I have to sort out what to do next. I have noticed that in the last few years I have become much more hardened, less patient, and further from the image one may likely have come to his mind when imagining the persons occupying pews. I am not entirely happy with some of the changes, but others seem to come with a measure of usefulness. I definitely have not come up with good answers for finding a just right church even if I can identify a number of problems which stop a church from being just right. My conclusions so far are that God is not defined by His believers (quality of those believers notwithstanding) and I have no doubts about the correctness of scripture even on those days I am convinced that God must hate me. I can see the forces which cause churches to either self-destruct or become ineffective, or completely fail to serve as institutions of worship and learning. I do not, however, have any good way to identify one which is on track, especially given that many with problems I could not tolerate are very good at marketing and looking good from the curb. Shallowness is hard to escape, unfortunately, even at church. I wish I could offer a good answer, but, unfortunately, I can't.

For those searching for the just right place (please note that I did not say 'perfect'), I wish you well!

 

[seedubs1]

I grew up forced into Catholic school. I'm not the type to blindly follow anything, so I asked too many questions, found out too many things that don't make sense, and left the church. I moved out of my home with my mother to move in with my dad when I was 16 so that I would no longer be forced to be in the church.

Since then, I've done a lot of research on religions. At this point, I'm a theistic leaning agnostic. That may be because I just can't wrap my head around the universe and because of that, I substitute some sort of God as an answer. I'm still trying to figure out what I think.

Another thing that takes me away from organized religion is my belief that the world would be better off without it. No more holy wars, no more discrimination based on the guise of religion, and no more of religion forcing its way into government.....just to name a few benefits.

I've also just flat out got better things to do with my time than sitting on a hard bench in a stuffy room on Sunday. If God is the Christian God, and he is as the bible says, wouldn't he rather you take those few hours and volunteer in your community? I don't attend a formalized church, but I can damn well say I'm a better person than 95% of people that do. I volunteer and help people.....a lot. And I've had pastors tell me that just being a good person doesn't matter and I'm going to hell anyways.

 

[femurphy77]

Big Religion, like Big Business is about maximizing control and profit and doesn't have anything to do with spirituality anymore.

 

[abnk]

I believe in one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I think that adequately summarizes my position in this matter.

 

[abnk]

I grew up Catholic. My father insisted that we attend Sunday mass, I always hated being there. I tried, man I tried to WANT to belong, to believe, but I never could. When I got older, Catholic mass became a practice in insanity. Those that attended seemed to only be there to "go through the motions". Organized religion is on the decline. That is to say, those who attend a church is on the decline. They may believe in a higher being, they just do so in a non organized way.

A very wise man expressed a thought about this very subject and I think it rings true for more and more people these days.

It is true that many go through the motions. You don't have to be like them.

I've a good book that helped me a lot. Quick and easy read. If you're interested, let me know, and it's yours.

 

[Denny347]

It is true that many go through the motions. You don't have to be like them.

I've a good book that helped me a lot. Quick and easy read. If you're interested, let me know, and it's yours.

I appreciate the thought but I'm good. When I was reading Meditations and saw that quote by Marcus Aurelius I thought to myself "This is the BEST way I can describe my life." It sums my outlook quite well.

 

[oldpink]

Big Religion, like Big Business is about maximizing control and profit and doesn't have anything to do with spirituality anymore.

Dunno what specific church you're talking about, unless you're confusing the "churches" from the likes of Benny Hinn or Jim Bakker.
If you honestly believe that most churches out there have such motivations, especially the latter, that shows just how little you really know about the average church, especially the hundreds of thousands of small rural ones.

 

[phylodog]

I had a few experiences with churches when I was young and they soured me on the idea for many years (may parents did not attend church, nor did my grandparents at the time). When I was stationed at Ft Hood, TX I met a man whom I had a great deal of respect for. He seemed to do everything in a way that seemed "right" to me. I spent quite a bit of time around him (mostly hunting and fishing) and he invited me to attend his church with him. After a few excuses I finally caved in and went with him. It was a small, basically one room Southern Baptist church and was the first time I'd ever walked into a church and not felt uncomfortable. I went back and kept going back as much as time would allow. I thoroughly enjoyed that church and I still miss it.

While I was away my Father and Stepmother began attending church very regularly. When I moved back home they invited me to go with them and I did. Their church was enormous and the only thing I remember the preacher talking about was money for this and money for that, expansion, expansion, expansion. Not my idea of what church should be.

I'm a simple man. While I'm not a big fan of singing, I don't mind a few hymns but I have little interest in watching a concert. When we get to the sermon I prefer to listen to someone read from the bible and explain things which I may not understand including and especially the uncomfortable parts. I don't want to listen to someone tell me how wonderful life is all the time because its not and I'm ok with that. I want to know about the consequences of my decisions both good and bad and I want information on how to make better decisions in the future. I don't want to turn to shake the hand of someone who will probably cut me off while trying to get out of the parking lot. I don't want to be badgered about money.

Seems simple enough but I haven't found it yet though I admit I haven't exactly hurt myself trying. I do miss that little church in Texas.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

I didnt read the whole thread, but if the OP is still reading this, here is my take:

I grew up in church, every sunday morning, most wednesday nights, and often other times during the week as myself and siblings were involved in various youth groups, choir, and varies church groups and projects. It was a great way to grow up surrounded by positive people and a fantastic support network. I haven't gone regularly for the past couple year, but I still feel as much a Christian as I ever have. The faith you feel and your connection to God is a personal thing that lives inside you. Like many things in life, you will get out if it, what you put into it. My son is now 4 months old and we will be finding a new church soon so that he can grow up with the same atmosphere that I had.

Yes, there are some churches that have petty arguments between groups, small scale scandals and don't nessecarily promote the ideals that a church is supposed to, but in my experience, that has been related to specific individual churches and not denominations as a whole. If you try a church and find that to be the case, then go find a different church, don't give up all together. Ive also found that even in the churches where that type of thing is more visible, there will still be a core group of people within that church who are there for the right reasons and who can be a very positive influence on you. It seems now there are such a wide variety of styles even among the same denomination ranging from older school and formal to more contemporary and casual that I would think most all believers could find a church that suits them. Also don't feel the need to go to a particular church just because it is closest to you, that seems to be a stumbling block for a lot of people. Id also suggest investing a bit of yourself in the church before you decide if you are getting enough out of it, as previously mentioned, you will only get out what you put in.

 

[Leadeye]

Wife is Catholic, I'm not, but the Catholic Church married us any way 36 years ago. I find the Catholic Church an interesting organization with a rich history and we attend mass off and on even though I don't take communion. That said on the occasions when I need to talk to God I really don't require an interpreter.

 

[Trigger Time]

Grew up with it shoved down my throat (not literally), I wasn't catholic. Minimum weekly church trips were 3 and mostly 4 times. Very strict religion, basic everyone else in the world is wrong and evil. Taught good values though but I could have got that from parents. Basically it was a social trip where everyone could judge each other and show how much holier and dedicated that they were over everyone else. Also so the haves could give charity to the have nots, which was always endless (as it is outside churches too). This last 2 parts is what I've found at most churches of different Christian sects I've ever been a part of.
I think faith in something greater is a great thing and a fear of eternal damnation is good for some people too to keep them in check. Basically that's all I think religion is, is a man made way to keep the mAsses from burning down the towns and raiding the castle. I personally do believe there is something (a higher power of you will) out there but I do not think it controls everyday life nor your soul. I support people believing whatever they want as long as it's not imposed on others that don't want it. That goes for bible thumpers and atheists.
But in the grand scheme of things I think our modern society is SEVERELY lacking in even basic moral values and is more of a modern sodem and Gamorah (spelling?) if I had to put a religious based label on it.
basicly I think the world is ****ed and all I can do is prepare for when the fallout comes my way. Praying, going to a building and reading a book isn't gonna change my or anyone else's fate. That's what I think and I support your right to agree or disagree.

 

[spec4]

Born into Catholicism. Until my mid-twenties I did my best to buy into the program. Confession was a concept I could never get into. The guilt wore me down along with all the rules. Flash forward decades, wife joins the church in our area after being off and on several years. I attend with her figuring an hour a week won't kill me. Pastor very strict, lot's of fire and brimstone. It's a large church and idiots bring their screaming kids in with them so I can only pick up half of what the guy is saying. I actually felt uncomfortable with his homilies and forcing us to introduce ourselves to the strangers around us and mentioned it to a good friend who converted to the Catholic church (wife is Catholic). He said nobody should feel uncomfortable in a house of worship. Now I only go if we're traveling or by special request. I consider myself a Christian and strongly believe in helping folks not as fortunate as me.

 

[Leo]

The original Christian Church did not have specific buildings for 200 or so years. They met in homes and public places. While over the years, churches based in buildings have served many productive purposes, currently too many have become places of programs that have evolved to seem to serve only the programs.

The original plan was that every believer has gifts and abilities given to benefit the local community of believers. No one was to feel like an orphan. It is pretty hard to exercise your gifts without being in relationship to others. There are lots of people who need something you are equiped to provide. Those who serve others end up with a sense of peace and fulfillment that even secular pyschologists recognise.

Even though I have been ordained by two denominations, and licensed by another, it often seems that the denominational office gets in the way of the well defined Biblical functions. As government regulation gets heavier, the head office has to get heavier also. Head offices also tend to collect CEO types, that does not make them spiritual ministers.

I have watched the bigger denominations hemorage membership numbers for a couple of decades. What warms my heart is that I am seeing great congregations growing rapidly in the more independent churches, and mostly young adults. The newer churches are more relational, like the original church. Most of the independents do have some form of Spiritual overseers to help keep the doctrines and priorities in order, but no jumping through hoops for the sake of the headquarters. More of a Co op than a class of disconnected rulers. The common factor in all these places is that they preach the word right from the Bible with little coloring of the message due to denominational influences, and they care for and encourage each other, as the Bible teaches. They also reject the secular idol called political correctness, chosing instead to speak the truth with love.

I believe that at the approach of the end of time, Christians will again be primarily found in home churches, small borrowed halls and public spaces, just like the first century church. They will also daily live out their profession of faith, not just go to a building once a week and demand to be entertained and told only things that their itching ears want to hear.

 

[flightsimmer]

Which church? Man's church or Gods church?
(ecclesia) assembly or congregation of people, in this case Gods people who are set aside for him.
Those who have repented of their sins and have asked God for forgiveness and strive to learn of Him and serve Him in their daily lives.

Or, man's church's of which there are many who go about with a form of Godlyness but deny the power to become son's and daughters of God.

There is only one church that matters to God and Christ alone is the head of it and those who are saved are the body of that church.

 

[Woobie]

The responses in this thread have been really fascinating to me. The candor, honesty and respect exhibited remind me why INGO is such a great community.

I pastor a small (30-40 people on Sunday morning) local church about 15 miles SE of Muncie. There are a lot of misconceptions about church today. The results of some of these misconceptions have been echoed by some in this thread. And that is the fault, in many cases of the churches themselves, as it is often the leadership who either hold these false notions, or at least do not correct them. And, in our defense, it's not the easiest job. But that shouldn't be an excuse. When we don't do our job right, it can cause life-long pain or disillusionment, which some of you have experienced. I freely admit that I have made plenty of mistakes, and just because I discuss what follows doesn't mean that we do them all as well as we should.

If we say we believe the Bible, and that it is the inspired Word of God, then maybe as part of that belief we should, oh, I don't know, build and operate churches on a Biblical model. Leo explained this well in his remarks about the early church. The Church is, first of all, God's. The local churches are part of that body, not through formal association with each other, but through formal association with the Founder. This local church needs to be about His work, then. As some of you have intimated, perhaps in disillusionment, how is this accomplished by occupying a pew on Sunday morning? Well, frankly, it isn't. Let me qualify that statement. The church is responsible for spreading the Gospel, upholding sound doctrine within its membership, discipling believers, providing comfort and charity for members and the community at large, worshipping God, and facilitating support and accountability.

Now, part of some of these things are accomplished in a worship service. But none of them are done well or completely if they are only done during a worship service. The service is a function of the church, and a vital one. But if that is all the worship, teaching, fellowship that is taking place, then it is really not getting done. What you end up with is seekers walking away scratching their heads, new under-discipled Christians who become disiklusioned, and older Christians whose walk becomes flat and unfruitful.

Every decision a church makes should be captive to God's will and these vital ministries. Should we have a building? Should we employ a full-time pastor, or bring on another pastor? Should we start a bus ministry? Everything must be justified or denied by the ultimate purpose of the church. If a church is large, it shouldn't forsake being small. The healthy large churches have small groups which facilitate that last tenant I mentioned at the end of the third paragraph.

I won't keep going on. But I daresay those of you who have had positive experiences have attended a church tbat gets this stuff mostly right. If you have been in cold services and only felt like you were occupying a pew, that's probably because the church has faltered in its responsibilities, or you came in with the wrong expectations. We have people who show up from time to time, sit, get their church fix and leave. They will never have a fulfilling walk, if they are truly in Christ at all. In the end, if it isn't about Christ, then it's a big waste of time. If you made it this far, I hope you've read something that helped you. God bless.

 

[jss1956]

I didn't care much for attending church growing up. Raised a Lutheran, I rebelled and drifted away. My early adult life was filled with difficulties, many of my own choosing. In my mid 20s, I met a wonderful woman who was raised a Baptist. I started attending church with her and realized several things:

We are all sinners, only one person was without sin.
There really is a God. I speak with him daily and yes, he answers me.
Do I hear him speak to me? Yes, many times. And many times I can't hear him because I'm not listening.
Am I blessed? Do I have all that I need? More than enough. And one of my biggest blessings is still my wife 30-years later.
Am I perfect? Absolutely not! Is my church perfect? Far from it. But it's full of folks who care, share and support.

I've never found a perfect church, it doesn't exist. The one I attend now has its issues. A church to me is a place where my spirit is fed and I find peace. If you met us you would not think we are a deeply religious couple or in the never-miss-a-Sunday class. We are just like most folks, forgiven.

 

[Bennettjh]

Been a Southern Baptist since birth.

I go every Sunday and Wednesday. It's good to be with other believers in Christ. Are there hypocrites? More than I could count. We're all hypocrites at a basic level IMHO. A friend at our church says, "churches are a hospital for sinners not a showcase for saints".

 

[PistolBob]

Catholic Convert....almost 20 years ago...I make use of the sacraments on a regular basis, big fan of Christian history, enjoy the traditional Latin Mass, and the Ordinary Mass as well. Married Catholic gal almost 40 years ago, in the Catholic church....she never pressured me to join, and we attended Mass less than every Sunday...now we rarely miss an opportunity to go...I even go during my lunch some days. I like it.