Uvalde Texas Killing

[justacog]

One of the huge problems since nics has been, doctors dont want to forward mental health problems to the State and the State doesn't want to forward information to nics for starters. Hence those with problems arnt prohibited and cruise through state and federal checks.
How many shooters in the last 20 years have bought from ffl's and with years of mental issues passed a nics check or checks.

Answer way to ****ing many.

Maybe because a lot of those so called mental health "professionals" don't want to get hauled into court and be proven with a jury verdict that they are complete quacks whose diagnoses are often completely subjective, that get by over prescribing meds, and having their political leanings broadcast for all to see.

Answer way to ****ing many.

Next they will push for mental evaluations to own a gun. So you can take a number and wait an hour after your appointment time because some overpaid salaried pensioned party apparatchik is late as a result of having difficulty convincing a grade school kid it is OK to mutilate their genitals without their parent's knowledge or consent before they determine you are good-think enough to own a gun.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm not projecting anything, i'm mostly asking questions or answering questions that have been asked of me.

This has brought out some good discussion.
The questions as to staffing go with the current efforts to staff about anything to full capacity.

 

[canebreaker]

My granddaughter is a mod on an online gaming site. She manages 1 room with live chat. Some of the games have a lot of shooting action, which she isn't part of. Some viewers will come to her room and start talking about the shooting rooms, they are asked to leave. 6 months ago she came to me asking if I knew anything about Daniel Defense, which I didn't at the time. They are a sponsor of some of the game rooms. She read their ad directed to young adults. She said, I can go to a gun dealer and file out a back ground check sheet. Have a copy sent to Daniel Defense. I can pick out what gun I want and it's shipped to me. First payment in 30 days.

 

[canebreaker]

The teacher went to the door and kicked the stone out of the way that propped the door open and let the door close. If the stone was small and just gaped the door a little when the door closed there wasn't enough force to engage the lock.
Try it yourself on a self-locking door. Put your finger between the door and frame. Pull your finger out. The door will close, did it lock?
I went to the schools that my younger granddaughters go to yesterday. The county maintenance guy and I checked every door in the 3 buildings. I had a bucket of wood blocks different widths from half inch to 8 inches. A few doors locked with the 2" block. Some didn't lock using the 8" block. All doors were adjusted to lock with the half inch block. Had to replace the closer on 5 doors.

 

[KG1]

My granddaughter is a mod on an online gaming site. She manages 1 room with live chat. Some of the games have a lot of shooting action, which she isn't part of. Some viewers will come to her room and start talking about the shooting rooms, they are asked to leave. 6 months ago she came to me asking if I knew anything about Daniel Defense, which I didn't at the time. They are a sponsor of some of the game rooms. She read their ad directed to young adults. She said, I can go to a gun dealer and file out a back ground check sheet. Have a copy sent to Daniel Defense. I can pick out what gun I want and it's shipped to me. First payment in 30 days.

They can’t ship it directly to her. It has to be shipped to an FFL gun dealer first and she needs to pick it up there and fill out 4473 NICS background check form. If it clears then she is gtg. Maybe that’s what you meant.

Oh and she has to be 18+ to purchase a rifle through a dealer.

 

[Cameramonkey]

My granddaughter is a mod on an online gaming site. She manages 1 room with live chat. Some of the games have a lot of shooting action, which she isn't part of. Some viewers will come to her room and start talking about the shooting rooms, they are asked to leave. 6 months ago she came to me asking if I knew anything about Daniel Defense, which I didn't at the time. They are a sponsor of some of the game rooms. She read their ad directed to young adults. She said, I can go to a gun dealer and file out a back ground check sheet. Have a copy sent to Daniel Defense. I can pick out what gun I want and it's shipped to me. First payment in 30 days.

I call BS. ALL modern firearms must be shipped to a FFL. No exceptions*

And I have done this myself repeatedly myself.

*at least for this discussion.

 

[canebreaker]

I'm going by what she told me from the ad she read. I haven't seen or read it.
She's 26 and knows all the rules of gun transfers that's why she brought the subject up.

 

[printcraft]

LOL no.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'm going by what she told me from the ad she read. I haven't seen or read it.
She's 26 and knows all the rules of gun transfers that's why she brought the subject up.

somebody is blowing smoke up her skirt.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

One of the huge problems since nics has been, doctors dont want to forward mental health problems to the State and the State doesn't want to forward information to nics for starters. Hence those with problems arnt prohibited and cruise through state and federal checks.
How many shooters in the last 20 years have bought from ffl's and with years of mental issues passed a nics check or checks.

Answer way to ****ing many.

You need to explain a bit more please. Do you think all that has to happen is that the shrink has to tell the state for them to become prohibited or fail a nics? If so, that is not how it works, nor should it.

The shrink can notify the police, they can go talk to the person, if they feel it's needed they can take them in for a 72 hr hold/evaluation. Depending on that they can then file with the courts to have them adjudicated mentally defective which requires a court hearing with the burden of proof on the state. At least that is how my non lawyer self believes it works.

 

[actaeon277]

I don't suppose that anybody in big media has considered that the murderer could have killed all those he shot with a revolver when you look at the time involved. It really has nothing to do with an AR-15 other than going back to old gun control argument.

A knife or baseball bat

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I'm going by what she told me from the ad she read. I haven't seen or read it.
She's 26 and knows all the rules of gun transfers that's why she brought the subject up.

See below.

somebody is blowing smoke up her skirt.

Or perhaps read/understood it wrong. I'm guessing go to the FFL and have them send DD a copy of their FFL not the 4473 if they don't already have one on file with them. Then have it shipped to the FFL and do the 4473 there.

 

[Creedmoor]

You need to explain a bit more please. Do you think all that has to happen is that the shrink has to tell the state for them to become prohibited or fail a nics? If so, that is not how it works, nor should it.

The shrink can notify the police, they can go talk to the person, if they feel it's needed they can take them in for a 72 hr hold/evaluation. Depending on that they can then file with the courts to have them adjudicated mentally defective which requires a court hearing with the burden of proof on the state. At least that is how my non lawyer self believes it works.

My intent wasn't to talk about the process,
The process has a few missing links.
Nics just isint notified. And it needs to be run through the system of course.

 

[DragonGunner]

The teacher went to the door and kicked the stone out of the way that propped the door open and let the door close. If the stone was small and just gaped the door a little when the door closed there wasn't enough force to engage the lock.
Try it yourself on a self-locking door. Put your finger between the door and frame. Pull your finger out. The door will close, did it lock?
I went to the schools that my younger granddaughters go to yesterday. The county maintenance guy and I checked every door in the 3 buildings. I had a bucket of wood blocks different widths from half inch to 8 inches. A few doors locked with the 2" block. Some didn't lock using the 8" block. All doors were adjusted to lock with the half inch block. Had to replace the closer on 5 doors.

And this should convince most people about bringing back the 2A to gun free zones. Wolves love sheep, sheep need Shepards. Your either for or against the 2A. If liberal teachers don't want to carry, fine. Hire conservative ones who will......might just make public schools better.

 

[chipbennett]

The teacher went to the door and kicked the stone out of the way that propped the door open and let the door close. If the stone was small and just gaped the door a little when the door closed there wasn't enough force to engage the lock.
Try it yourself on a self-locking door. Put your finger between the door and frame. Pull your finger out. The door will close, did it lock?
I went to the schools that my younger granddaughters go to yesterday. The county maintenance guy and I checked every door in the 3 buildings. I had a bucket of wood blocks different widths from half inch to 8 inches. A few doors locked with the 2" block. Some didn't lock using the 8" block. All doors were adjusted to lock with the half inch block. Had to replace the closer on 5 doors.

This is all true, but misses the point: don't prop security doors open in contravention of their security purpose.

The school seemingly had a culture in which violating security protocols for convenience was accepted. That culture directly contributed to a killer having access to defenseless students. And I stand by my prior assertion that the person who propped the door open should be held criminally liable for the loss of life.

 

[chipbennett]

I'm going by what she told me from the ad she read. I haven't seen or read it.
She's 26 and knows all the rules of gun transfers that's why she brought the subject up.

Does she have a copy of the ad?

 

[jamil]

And if we don’t push back with facts and logic, they’ll bamboozle the ignorant with lies and steamroll over our rights.

I kinda don't think that matters so much anymore. Maybe for normal people who don't really know what's going on. But look at California. $9/gal gas. The $9/gal gas. It's a reality as factual as you can get. Why haven't they demanded Gavin Newsome's head on a figurative pike? Oh. It's due. It's our part to sacrifice for the greater good, so that we can force people to adopt cleaner sources of energy. There's no facts or logic that's gonna overcome that. You have to break through the ideological goo first. Something like deprogramming a cult member.

 

[rooster]

shrink can notify the police, they can go talk to the person, if they feel it's needed they can take them in for a 72 hr hold/evaluation. Depending on that they can then file with the courts to have them adjudicated mentally defective which requires a court hearing with the burden of proof on the state. At least that is how my non lawyer self believes it works

Getting to the shrink stage is near impossible if the person doesn’t want to go.

As someone who tried to get a family member committed and the deputies said “he hasn’t said he wants to hurt himself or others to us so we can’t do anything”. Even though I told them he threaten to hurt people. Basically they told me I would need to get him on video or Audio saying it.

And people wonder how s*** like this happens.

 

[rooster]

Seems all the threads from pol have been wiped. Feds must have gotten the info they needed.

 

[jamil]

This is all true, but misses the point: don't prop security doors open in contravention of their security purpose.

The school seemingly had a culture in which violating security protocols for convenience was accepted. That culture directly contributed to a killer having access to defenseless students. And I stand by my prior assertion that the person who propped the door open should be held criminally liable for the loss of life.

That person does hold some responsibility. Not full responsibility. The greatest portion of responsibility is on the shooter. And it's not even close.

The teacher circumvented the security. Sounds like they all did it. So then it was only a matter of timing that this one teacher's actions made it easier for the shooter, and not some other teacher who routinely did the same thing. I agree with you generally, but I'd stop at criminal responsibility. Civil? Yes. I think it's fair to sue the school and even individuals who even unwittingly gave aid to the shooter.

I think it would be quite unfair to hold the teacher criminally responsible when it the school neglected to enforce security policies. If the one teacher was guilty, then all the teachers who routinely propped the door open are guilty, as the only difference is the fate of timing.