Trump 2024 ???

[jamil]

it was a situation alright. The only thing that made it to the court were the trials of the Capitol rioters. I will grant that I believe the initial plan was for Trump to rally protestors at the Capitol to bring the issue to attention, which is perfectly fine, I don't think his intention was for it to go as far as it did with hooligan rioters breaking into the Capitol and interrupting the proceedings in order to force the courts hand. If that was the plan all along then it was a stupid plan that never had a chance to work,

Quoted the above for reference.

Based on that paragraph, one might conclude you do not believe that the 1/6 crowd was full of FBI etc operatives who were tasked with causing some kind of incident. Is this one of those 'no proof so it didn't happen' situations? No proof as in the FBI refuses to answer whether it had any operatives in the crowd or how many if it did?

It never ceases to amaze me how so many credit Trump with being all powerful by trying to affix blame to him as if with a word he could have changed the outcome. Not sure how you can stave off his winning the primary if he is so all powerful

Not sure if you remember he offered Bowser 20000 national guard troops almost a week before the planned protest (which she refused, purportedly because the Dems 'didn't like the optics') so it isn't like there's any proof he wanted any such thing to happen

Of course, lack of proof can still be taken as evidence as long as it points in the desired direction

Hail Hydra! DeSantis will save us

C'mon man. Disagreeing with your "master plan-" theory does not logically conclude with anything you've asserted here. I think you're getting too emotionally integrated into this thing. C'mon. It's still the holiday season. I hope your Christmas was awesome. We still have new years to look forward too. I don't know if you're retired, or maybe you're off work for the year. Maybe we should take a break on this thread. This discussion is turning into resentment. I'd rather not resent or be resented. I think we agree on stuff more than we disagree. You're kinda wrapped into Trump. Whatever. I'm not. That seems to cause problems when we voice our differences. I think I'd rather chill out and enjoy my time off. Ain't nothing wrong with what KG1 said.

 

[jamil]

Not sure but I think IM is saying that the SOS unconstitutionally changed the "manor" of how the electors are elected thereby usurping the legislatures constitutional authority without their approval.

My point that I was trying to ascertain was to gather some more information on what exactly she did to change that?

I think he should be able to say exactly what she did to change it. I haven't seen anything changed. As far as I can tell, both Trump and Biden chose their slates of electors. The election was done. She certified the results. She notified Biden's electors and directed them to do their duties. What manor did she change?

I think they were thinking that the SoS certified the election instead of the legislature, unaware that the state law delegates authority to the SoS to certify elections, just like it does in Indiana. And I think they think that because some right wing propaganda told them that this was the case. They were lied to. They trusted whatever source of information told them that. And now they have to come to terms with that lie.

 

[jamil]

It truly is sad to me that on such a big deal, the 2020 election, so many, do not know much about what happened. I picture the INGO political participants as being more knowledgeable than the average person. Was not trying to offend you, just an expression of incredulity I should not have said.

What if you're sources of information are lying to you? I suspect they were, at least about "the manor" stuff. I found the PA state law on elections. I don't see where anything about "manor" was violated. In fact, the evidence I see shows the legislature declined to deviate from the current state law.

But, like I said, I don't think the law was followed on changing the deadlines for accepting ballots. I couldn't find anywhere where the election board was granted authority to change that. So I strongly suspect the PA supreme court got that wrong.

 

[KG1]

Quoted the above for reference.



C'mon man. Disagreeing with your "master plan-" theory does not logically conclude with anything you've asserted here. I think you're getting too emotionally integrated into this thing. C'mon. It's still the holiday season. I hope your Christmas was awesome. We still have new years to look forward too. I don't know if you're retired, or maybe you're off work for the year. Maybe we should take a break on this thread. This discussion is turning into resentment. I'd rather not resent or be resented. I think we agree on stuff more than we disagree. You're kinda wrapped into Trump. Whatever. I'm not. That seems to cause problems when we voice our differences. I think I'd rather chill out and enjoy my time off. Ain't nothing wrong with what KG1 said.

Well like I said. Bugs condescending conclusions couldn't have been any more off the mark and I explained why.

I guess he's not man enough to say that he might have been mistaken in his conclusions.

Oh and I'm still waiting for Bug to come up with any post that I have ever made in this thread or any other which remotely suggests that I have "Hailed DeSantis" as the one to save us all.

 

[Ingomike]

It was all unconstitutional when the manner of voting was changed without the legislature doing it.

Just curious if you guys will say the same things when they make guns illegal or will you have a different tune? The left through unconstitutional means changed the manner of electing electors, that simple. If they can do that they can take guns. Just do it, get a court to say only militias have standing, and let the second die...

 

[jamil]

Well like I said. Bugs condescending conclusions couldn't have been any more off the mark and I explained why.

I guess he's not man enough to say that he might have been mistaken in his conclusions.

Oh and I'm still waiting for Bug to come up with any post that I have ever made in this thread or any other which remotely suggests that I have "Hailed DeSantis" as the one to save us all.

It's yours to handle however you see fit. I'm canceling all debt. Sunday it'll be a new year. I think there's still some Apple pie in the fridge.

 

[LeftyGunner]

I mean. That's a bit past the line. And that's coming from someone who's probably stretched a line or two in the heat of things.

Guilty as charged, I let my emotions get the better of me. My comment was inappropriate, and I apologize for posting it, specifically to @BugI02.

Yep. Personal foul. Un Sportsman like conduct.

View attachment 245011

Attacking the message is fair game, but attacking the messenger is not...clean call, ref. I’ll humbly take my penalty.

 

[jamil]

It was all unconstitutional when the manner of voting was changed without the legislature doing it.

Just curious if you guys will say the same things when they make guns illegal or will you have a different tune? The left through unconstitutional means changed the manner of electing electors, that simple. If they can do that they can take guns. Just do it, get a court to say only militias have standing, and let the second die...

Well when did the manor of voting get changed, and who did it? What did it get changed to? What procedure was actually followed? And why is PA's manor of voting wrong when ours here in Indiana is pretty much the same? And what sources told you that the manor of voting was changed unconstitutionally?

You don't have to answer. Like I said, I'm canceling all debt. You don't owe me an answer. Maybe you owe yourself.

Dig that information up. Verify everything they told you was unconstitutional. See if it is.

But. If you find that PA really did follow their state law, that the electors were chosen according to the state law, and that the state law was duly enacted by the legislature and signed into law by the governor, you might redirect your frustration at the people who lied to you. Your belief is the most valuable thing you have, next to breath. It should infuriate you when you trust people with your belief and they betray you by lying.

 

[KG1]

It's yours to handle however you see fit. I'm canceling all debt. Sunday it'll be a new year. I think there's still some Apple pie in the fridge.

Well how bout this. I'm willing to say that I may have been wrong in my conclusion of Bugs conclusions if he can explain to me what lead him to the conclusions that he made.

I would specifically like to ask what made him conclude by what I said that I don't believe there were any Fed operatives in the crowd on 1/6 that encouraged those who rioted to act out and I blame Trump for their actions?

Also I would like an explanation of what lead Bug to conclude that I was'nt aware Trump offered to call up National Guard Troops to secure the Capitol and that Nanny Pelosi rejected that offer?

And lastly what lead Bug to conclude that I have ever hailed DeSantis as the one to save us all?

I'll stick with my conclusion that he was way off the mark and his conclusions were unwarranted.

 

[jamil]

***Dammit! Someone ate the ****ing apple pie. I was saving that last piece. Even hid it in the back behind leftovers.

It was a cobbler too. All that yummy crunchy goodness on top. heat it up. spray some whipped cream on top.

 

[Ingomike]

Well when did the manor of voting get changed, and who did it? What did it get changed to? What procedure was actually followed? And why is PA's manor of voting wrong when ours here in Indiana is pretty much the same? And what sources told you that the manor of voting was changed unconstitutionally?

You don't have to answer. Like I said, I'm canceling all debt. You don't owe me an answer. Maybe you owe yourself.

Dig that information up. Verify everything they told you was unconstitutional. See if it is.

But. If you find that PA really did follow their state law, that the electors were chosen according to the state law, and that the state law was duly enacted by the legislature and signed into law by the governor, you might redirect your frustration at the people who lied to you. Your belief is the most valuable thing you have, next to breath. It should infuriate you when you trust people with your belief and they betray you by lying.

Deadlines and all manner of election times and places were changed without the legislature.

“The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof”

Therefore any officer of the state or federal government that certifies an election that was done unconstitutionally has violated their oath of office…

What is up with using the word manor instead of the proper word, manner?

 

[KG1]

***Dammit! Someone ate the ****ing apple pie. I was saving that last piece. Even hid it in the back behind leftovers.

It was a cobbler too. All that yummy crunchy goodness on top. heat it up. spray some whipped cream on top.

IDK. Just don't come to any conclusion that it was me. Or maybe you might just by me saying that it was'nt me. Just like a kid saying to their parents "It was'nt me"

 

[jamil]

Deadlines and all manner of election times and places were changed without the legislature.

“The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof”

Therefore any officer of the state or federal government that certifies an election that was done unconstitutionally has violated their oath of office…

What is up with using the word manor instead of the proper word, manner?

Which is what I said my problem is with it. If that was your only complaint, why did you and Bug go on about electors and ****? You made me think your primary beef was with that! So I spent all that time looking all that stuff up. And in the end, your beef is with something I agree with you about?

I suspect it was more than just the stuff I already agreed with. But I'm canceling all debt. It's fine. Water under the bridge.

And about manor vs manner, I dunno. I just type **** from my head and it comes out on the web page however it comes out.

 

[jamil]

IDK. Just don't come to any conclusion that it was me. Or maybe you might just by me saying that it was'nt me. Just like a kid saying to their parents "It was'nt me"

I am pretty pissed about the pie. I've been thinking about scarffing that last piece all day. Wife was in the basement. The coast was clear. It's. Gone! ****ing gone! WTF?!

I have my suspicious about who ate it. Wasn't my wife. She's one of those unamerican weirdos who prefer pumpkin pie over apple pie. But. I mean. She was hot so I married her anyway. At least she doesn't like pineable on pizza.

 

[KG1]

Which is what I said my problem is with it. If that was your only complaint, why did you and Bug go on about electors and ****? You made me think your primary beef was with that! So I spent all that time looking all that stuff up. And in the end, your beef is with something I agree with you about?

I suspect it was more than just the stuff I already agreed with. But I'm canceling all debt. It's fine. Water under the bridge.

And about manor vs manner, I dunno. I just type **** from my head and it comes out on the web page however it comes out.

Sometimes that's not a good thing.

 

[KG1]

Which is what I said my problem is with it. If that was your only complaint, why did you and Bug go on about electors and ****? You made me think your primary beef was with that! So I spent all that time looking all that stuff up. And in the end, your beef is with something I agree with you about?

I suspect it was more than just the stuff I already agreed with. But I'm canceling all debt. It's fine. Water under the bridge.

And about manor vs manner, I dunno. I just type **** from my head and it comes out on the web page however it comes out.

It would've been so much better If Mike would've just responded with that in the first place when the question was posed to clarify about what was specifically done. Anyway, I'll cancel the debt about IM insinuating that I am nothing more than an average uninformed participant here. I'm not quite there yet with Bug but I'm sure I'll get over it.

Happy New Year IM. Enjoy the last piece of pie that you stole out of the back of jamil's refrigerator.

 

[Ingomike]

Which is what I said my problem is with it. If that was your only complaint, why did you and Bug go on about electors and ****? You made me think your primary beef was with that! So I spent all that time looking all that stuff up. And in the end, your beef is with something I agree with you about?

I suspect it was more than just the stuff I already agreed with. But I'm canceling all debt. It's fine. Water under the bridge.

And about manor vs manner, I dunno. I just type **** from my head and it comes out on the web page however it comes out.

A competing slate was sent from the state and both slates should have been rejected and the mess sorted out. Same for the other states. As it is Roberts court failed the people.

 

[indyartisan]

Is it time to start the Trump for First Lady thread?

 

[BugI02]

Pedantic? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Sure it does

ped·ant
noun
a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning

The secretary of sate informs the party judged to have won the election that their slate of electors will be sent to DC. Is that not equivalent to 'certifying' that slate of electors, even if that is not the exact word used

cer·ti·fy
verb
attest or confirm in a formal statement.
officially recognize (someone or something) as possessing certain qualifications or meeting certain standards.

 

[BugI02]

No. It can't be more clear. Clearly, the legislature passed a bill, signed into law by the governor, empowering the SoS to certify election results. The appointing of electors is done by the candidates. Each has their own slate of electors.

When voters vote, they're not voting for the POTUS/VPOTUS. They're voting for which slate of electors get to vote for POTUS/VPOTUS. So when the SoS certifies the election results, she's setting the slate of electors that gets to vote. In PA, it's also her duty to notify the members of the slate that the winner chose, that they should meet at the prescribed place, at the prescribed time, and execute their duties as electors.

The legislature could indeed reclaim the authority to do the certification, and such. Did they? Please report back once you've determined that.

No, they have not as yet reclaimed their authority. Now extend that knowledge just a bit further

If the legislature HAD NOT passed a law allowing the SoS to certify the election, would that slate of electors have been selected according to the constitution

And if the legislature judged that that slate was NOT certified in a constitutionally valid manner, would they not be within their rights to put forth an alternate slate of electors

And finally, most crucially, at the time of Pence's failure of nerve (prior to amendments made to the rules governing the VPs powers) would Pence have not been within his rights to reject the slate of electors that were not supported by their state legislature