To Mask or Not to Mask?

[johny5]

You mean “our creator” made some cultures defy the norms of other cultures? Not every culture covers themselves. Why do some cultures oppress women? Not every woman has ugly boobs.

First: I did not invoke the Creator, the Founding Fathers did.

Second: Cultures are defined by their differences. No differences, no cultures.

Third: Cultural practices concerning the acceptable treatment of women or the cultural definition of oppression (which often vary widely within a nation or its cultural boundaries) are orthogonal to this discussion.

Your move.

 

[Sylvain]

1. Our rights are not guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. They are endowed by our Creator.

2. The Founding Fathers believed so strongly in these natural rights, that they were/are so supremely were self-evident, that many argued that the Bill or Rights was unnecessary.

3. The Bill of Rights is not, nor was it ever meant to be an exhaustive enumeration of individual liberties. To take a position that one's rights are not being trampled because their is no direct mention of the activity in question in the Constitution is to completely miss the brilliance of the Founding Fathers and the government they put in place.

Finally, I did not clip a quote for this but...I am completely uninterested in a comparative analysis of the freedoms we enjoy with others as a basis of calibration. We must ensure that we are appropriately free. If other nations around the world embrace despotism, to whatever degree, that is their affair. I will live free!

Your rights are guaranteed (recognized, acknowledged ... use whatever word you want) by The Bill of Rights.I didn't say they were granted by it or that they come from that text.
You're arguing over semantic here.And doing so with a non-native English speaker.

You have the right not to wear a mask.
Businesses, hospitals, have the right to require you to wear one.
Don't go to those places if it somehow makes you feel less free.

It's silly to equate mandatory mask laws to despotism.

In some countries they have a mandatory state religion in place, gays are thrown off buildings, women can't vote, people can't own firearms, they have a single political party in place ...

I'm sure they would love to get some of your freedom if all they had to do was to cover their face in public.

If you're on US soil right now YOU ARE LIVING FREE.Right now!

You have more freedom than 99% of the world's population.
Even if mandatory face mask laws are in place you will still be free.

 

[indyartisan]

One of the worst things about this whole mask thing was when Karen
informed me that the Lone Ranger, Zorro and Batman were all doing it wrong.

 

[johny5]

Your rights are guaranteed (recognized, acknowledged ... use whatever word you want) by The Bill of Rights.I didn't say they were granted by it or that they come from that text.
You're arguing over semantic here.And doing so with a non-native English speaker.

You have the right not to wear a mask.
Businesses, hospitals, have the right to require you to wear one.
Don't go to those places if it somehow makes you feel less free.

It's silly to equate mandatory mask laws to despotism.

In some countries they have a mandatory state religion in place, gays are thrown off buildings, women can't vote, people can't own firearms, they have a single political party in place ...

I'm sure they would love to get some of your freedom if all they had to do was to cover their face in public.

If you're on US soil right now YOU ARE LIVING FREE.Right now!

You have more freedom than 99% of the world's population.
Even if mandatory face mask laws are in place you will still be free.

At no time did I equate mask laws to despotism. My statement was and still is this - the comparison of our freedoms to those of other nations is not, nor should it be, a factor in any conversation about how we interact with our government.

Also, I find it instructive that you (and others) conflate laws with executive proclamations. Ours is a federalist system with separate legislative, executive and judicial branches. This separation of powers was created to provide checks and balances against any inappropriate consolidation of power.

The legislative process is open, deliberative and participatory. The use of executive fiat carries two significant risks:
1. It denies the electorate its voice in the deliberative process
2. It undermines and frustrates the separation of powers

Ultimately, both of these have a similar result. The consent of the governed is compromised.

Also, I do live free. I live free because of the sacrifices of brave men and women who have risked everything they have to preserve our way of live.

By the way, I wonder, what would your response be to a minor tax on tea?

 

[jamil]

This thread went from not wearing masks, to not wearing pants.
So, are we wearing the masks, and not wearing pants, or just not wearing anything?
I need to know the proper attire to get my "router bits".

Free the junk! Free the boobs! Free the bits!

 

[PaulF]

There are times when people must work together to solve problems. Now is one of those times.

All you have to do is look at infection rates around the world. In countries where mask use and social distancing rates are higher, infection rates are lower.

Here in the US the virus is out of control. A lot of people are dying that shouldn't have to. Wearing a mask and keeping your distance saves lives.

No one has a "god-given right" to risk other people's lives...and that is exactly what the moronic anti-maskers are doing.

There is very little we can do to protect ourselves and out loved ones from this disease, but there are several behaviors that are backed with good evidence of efficacy:

1) Stay home when you can, plan as few visits into public spaces as possible.
2) If you must leave your home, wear a mask and keep your distance from others.
3) Maintain clean surfaces.

If we choose to do these things ourselves, the government has no need to step in. It's only fox news-watching, qanon-worshipping, trump-felating kool-aid drinking idiots that oppose this.

On a forum full of people who carry guns to protect themselves from situations that will statistically never happen to them it seems ludicrous to me that the same people are willing wade out into an active infection with no precautions.

Oh, right...fox news said this is about "muh freedoms".

**** me. The stupid in this place hurts.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

There are times when people must work together to solve problems. Now is one of those times.

All you have to do is look at infection rates around the world. In countries where mask use and social distancing rates are higher, infection rates are lower.

Here in the US the virus is out of control. A lot of people are dying that shouldn't have to. Wearing a mask and keeping your distance saves lives.

No one has a "god-given right" to risk other people's lives...and that is exactly what the moronic anti-maskers are doing.

There is very little we can do to protect ourselves and out loved ones from this disease, but there are several behaviors that are backed with good evidence of efficacy:

1) Stay home when you can, plan as few visits into public spaces as possible.
2) If you must leave your home, wear a mask and keep your distance from others.
3) Maintain clean surfaces.


If we choose to do these things ourselves, the government has no need to step in. It's only fox news-watching, qanon-worshipping, trump-felating kool-aid drinking idiots that oppose this.

On a forum full of people who carry guns to protect themselves from situations that will statistically never happen to them it seems ludicrous to me that the same people are willing wade out into an active infection with no precautions.

Oh, right...fox news siad this is about "muh freedoms".

**** me. The stupid in this place hurts.

I take exception to this, and as a former mod, you should know better Paul. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[johny5]

No one has a "god-given right" to risk other people's lives...and that is exactly what the moronic anti-maskers are doing.

If we choose to do these things ourselves, the government has no need to step in. It's only fox news-watching, qanon-worshipping, trump-felating kool-aid drinking idiots that oppose this.

On a forum full of people who carry guns to protect themselves from situations that will statistically never happen to them it seems ludicrous to me that the same people are willing wade out into an active infection with no precautions.

Oh, right...fox news siad this is about "muh freedoms".

**** me. The stupid in this place hurts.

So, your contribution to this discussion is to blindly lob reductionist, bigoted insults? I wonder, who is this meant to persuade?

 

[jamil]

There are times when people must work together to solve problems. Now is one of those times.

All you have to do is look at infection rates around the world. In countries where mask use and social distancing rates are higher, infection rates are lower.

Here in the US the virus is out of control. A lot of people are dying that shouldn't have to. Wearing a mask and keeping your distance saves lives.

No one has a "god-given right" to risk other people's lives...and that is exactly what the moronic anti-maskers are doing.

There is very little we can do to protect ourselves and out loved ones from this disease, but there are several behaviors that are backed with good evidence of efficacy:

1) Stay home when you can, plan as few visits into public spaces as possible.
2) If you must leave your home, wear a mask and keep your distance from others.
3) Maintain clean surfaces.

If we choose to do these things ourselves, the government has no need to step in. It's only fox news-watching, qanon-worshipping, trump-felating kool-aid drinking idiots that oppose this.

On a forum full of people who carry guns to protect themselves from situations that will statistically never happen to them it seems ludicrous to me that the same people are willing wade out into an active infection with no precautions.

Oh, right...fox news said this is about "muh freedoms".

**** me. The stupid in this place hurts.

Oh do tell us more about the people you disagree with. Do they eat live puppies?

 

[PaulF]

I take exception to this, and as a former mod, you should know better Paul. And that's all I have to say about that.

I take exception to gross stupidity. It is nothing short of stupid to wantonly expose oneself and an unknowable number of others to a deadly pathogen.

This pandemic shows that a lot of so-called "independent thinkers" are really so many kool-aid drinking sheep.

The facts are clear: this virus kills. One of the few things we can do to protect ourselves is wear a mask.

It's your right not to take precautions to protect yourself. It's my right to call out your idiotic and dangerous behavior.

 

[jamil]

I take exception to gross stupidity. It is nothing short of stupid to wantonly expose oneself and an unknowable number of others to a deadly pathogen.

This pandemic shows that a lot of so-called "independent thinkers" are really so many kool-aid drinking sheep.

The facts are clear: this virus kills. One of the few things we can do to protect ourselves is wear a mask.

It's your right not to take precautions to protect yourself. It's my right to call out your idiotic and dangerous behavior.

Have you considered this? What if you’re full of ****?

 

[jamil]

One other thing Paul. The people you seem to loathe here were the earliest adopters of mask waring. Your side of the isle mocked them then. I don’t blame them at all for saying **** you.

 

[PaulF]

Oh do tell us more about the people you disagree with. Do they eat live puppies?

I have no idea, and I don't care if they do. Your canine intake has ZERO potential effect on my life. Our sanitary and PPE habits DO effect others.

If I'm wrong, show me where. The venn diagrams of anti-maskers and fox news kool-aiders is a perfect circle.

 

[johny5]

Oh do tell us more about the people you disagree with. Do they eat live puppies?

So glad you pointed this out Jamil. It saddens me to see the state of public discourse. How can anyone have a productive debate when one side of the argument decides to define/dictate both sides of the matter.

"First, I will tell you what I believe, then I will tell you what you believe and why it is wrong."

It is as disingenuous as it is unproductive. But I cannot escape the thought that this may be the intent...

 

[PaulF]

One other thing Paul. The people you seem to loathe here were the earliest adopters of mask waring. Your side of the isle mocked them then. I don’t blame them at all for saying **** you.

Jamil, that's total BS, and you know it.

Trump loyalists have chosen this hill do die on. Literally.

 

[PaulF]

So, your contribution to this discussion is to blindly lob reductionist, bigoted insults? I wonder, who is this meant to persuade?

I'm not trying to persuade anyone. I'm pointing out the glaring stupidity of the anti-mask stance...on a gun-owners forum of all places.

Masks and distance are the ONLY effective tools we have to combat this virus. it isn't smart to ignore facts. That is EXACTLY what is happening in the US right now.

 

[JCSR]

I take exception to gross stupidity. It is nothing short of stupid to wantonly expose oneself and an unknowable number of others to a deadly pathogen.

This pandemic shows that a lot of so-called "independent thinkers" are really so many kool-aid drinking sheep.

The facts are clear: this virus kills. One of the few things we can do to protect ourselves is wear a mask.

It's your right not to take precautions to protect yourself. It's my right to call out your idiotic and dangerous behavior.

The facts are not clear. This is your opinion and we should be able to disagree with it.

 

[PaulF]

Have you considered this? What if you’re full of ****?

Sure I have. Have you?

 

[johny5]

I'm not trying to persuade anyone. I'm pointing out the glaring stupidity of the anti-mask stance...on a gun-owners forum of all places.

Masks and distance are the ONLY effective tools we have to combat this virus. it isn't smart to ignore facts. That is EXACTLY what is happening in the US right now.

This is the second reference you've made to the apparent dissonance between gun-rights advocacy and the hesitation to wear masks (yes, I am stating it far more charitably than you, but I believe I am capturing your meaning).

Let me suggest this. Calm down, read the comments made by others. If you agree with them on 2A, perhaps there is an element of this debate that you have not yet considered.

We are interested in a genuine debate. You, at the moment, do not appear to be. I would welcome you to join the discussion and make honest points. I am willing to debate the merits of masks. I am also willing to debate the finer points of government oversight of a free people.

I am completely uninterested in an angry exchange of ad hominem attacks.

 

[PaulF]

The facts are not clear. This is your opinion and we should be able to disagree with it.

Which facts aren't clear? That the virus kills? That locations that took PPE seriously from the beginning have had much greater success controlling their outbreaks?

Who is stopping you from disagreeing?

Masks and distance are the only tools we have. You are free not to use those tools, and I am free to question your understanding and motivations.

I think that refusing to take the only effective steps we have to curb infections is patently stupid behavior.