To carry or not to carry

[indyjohn]

You are in a confined aisle. If he is already moving towards you, you will not have time to draw your sidearm, even if you move straight back (which is a bad choice). You only gain time to draw and engage if you move off the "X"...which you cannot do in a confined space. Sooooo, without the ability to draw, you will likely have to go "hands on". While it is not prefered, it is quite possible to defend yourself against a knife attack with only your hands. After many FOF simgun scenarios with rubber knives, I've learned this lesson the hard way.

Am I accurate in thinking in the scenario you're describing, getting right up to the perp wrestling style lessens their ability to stab you?

 

[2A_Tom]

You would need to take a force on force class to be able to learn those techniques, that is unless you are a real bad *** like Denny.

 

[indyjohn]

.... that is unless you are a real bad *** like Denny.

QFT

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Am I accurate in thinking in the scenario you're describing, getting right up to the perp wrestling style lessens their ability to stab you?

I just took Craig Douglas' ECQC, and that's what he teaches. Basically what I learned is you are going to get cut, but getting cut a little is better than getting cut a lot.

 

[actaeon277]

You are in a confined aisle. If he is already moving towards you, you will not have time to draw your sidearm, even if you move straight back (which is a bad choice). You only gain time to draw and engage if you move off the "X"...which you cannot do in a confined space. Sooooo, without the ability to draw, you will likely have to go "hands on". While it is not prefered, it is quite possible to defend yourself against a knife attack with only your hands. After many FOF simgun scenarios with rubber knives, I've learned this lesson the hard way.

Sometimes, people concentrate too much on the gun.
I'm sure I can also be accused of that.
But up close.... you're right, hands on.
I've always thought this was a nice demonstration.

[video=youtube;9BNkOTTRW9o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BNkOTTRW9o[/video]

 

[actaeon277]

I just took Craig Douglas' ECQC, and that's what he teaches. Basically what I learned is you are going to get cut, but getting cut a little is better than getting cut a lot.

I've been told, you're going to get cut. Only in the movies does the good guy not get a scratch.
And this was from people I thought were pretty badass and knew what they were talking about.

 

[Joniki]

Let's say you're at the grocery store, in the dairy isle. Some guy you've never seen before comes at you screaming for you to give him your cell phone and he has a big kitchen knife in his hand. You say no and he comes at you with the knife obviously with intent to stab you.

What do you do?

Which aisle am I in?

 

[KellyinAvon]

Which aisle am I in?

Housewares, you're looking at the coffeemakers.

 

[Denny347]

Am I accurate in thinking in the scenario you're describing, getting right up to the perp wrestling style lessens their ability to stab you?

No, grappling will get you stabbed. You have to attack the arm.

You would need to take a force on force class to be able to learn those techniques, that is unless you are a real bad *** like Denny.

Hardly. A couple of weeks ago I took a week long class, "High Risk Control Options" put on by Hill Country Combatives. A ton of FOF training that really opened my eyes. We used rubber knives with sim Glocks. Great stuff. Sadly, this was a LEO only class. However, last year I took a knife fighting class that was open to the public that was very good. I'm not a bad***, just trained. I would argue that it is more likely to get stabbed than shot and it doesn't need to be a knife that does the stabbing. I see it at work all the time, stabbings in confined spaces. We talk about gun training, which is great for your own protection, but being armed is not always protection against a knife attack. Knowing what you can do to protect yourself if you CANNOT access your pistol will do more for you.

 

[2A_Tom]

No, grappling will get you stabbed. You have to attack the arm.

Hardly. A couple of weeks ago I took a week long class, "High Risk Control Options" put on by Hill Country Combatives. A ton of FOF training that really opened my eyes. We used rubber knives with sim Glocks. Great stuff. Sadly, this was a LEO only class. However, last year I took a knife fighting class that was open to the public that was very good. I'm not a bad***, just trained. I would argue that it is more likely to get stabbed than shot and it doesn't need to be a knife that does the stabbing. I see it at work all the time, stabbings in confined spaces. We talk about gun training, which is great for your own protection, but being armed is not always protection against a knife attack. Knowing what you can do to protect yourself if you CANNOT access your pistol will do more for you.

Dang, forgot the grape ink again.

 

[Denny347]

Dang, forgot the grape ink again.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

No, grappling will get you stabbed. You have to attack the arm.

Hardly. A couple of weeks ago I took a week long class, "High Risk Control Options" put on by Hill Country Combatives. A ton of FOF training that really opened my eyes. We used rubber knives with sim Glocks. Great stuff. Sadly, this was a LEO only class. However, last year I took a knife fighting class that was open to the public that was very good. I'm not a bad***, just trained. I would argue that it is more likely to get stabbed than shot and it doesn't need to be a knife that does the stabbing. I see it at work all the time, stabbings in confined spaces. We talk about gun training, which is great for your own protection, but being armed is not always protection against a knife attack. Knowing what you can do to protect yourself if you CANNOT access your pistol will do more for you.

I'm sure there's more than one way to skin the cat, but Craig's class teaches limited grappling to tie up their weapon and access your own weapon. Wrist tie or elbow block to stop the free swinging knife, moving to tie up both their hands, then accessing your firearm or blade. His class assumes you are also armed, and the goal of the grappling isn't to grapple but to tie them up to access your own weapon.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

Am I accurate in thinking in the scenario you're describing, getting right up to the perp wrestling style lessens their ability to stab you?

I just took Craig Douglas' ECQC, and that's what he teaches. Basically what I learned is you are going to get cut, but getting cut a little is better than getting cut a lot.

Controlling limbs that have tools intended to harm you is one of the key points taught in ECQC. Craig Douglas helps to teach you how to control them, but also shows you (time and again) that even those that know what to do will still typically get stabbed / cut. You don't always know when those tools are brought out, so yes, you are going to get stabbed / cut.

 

[Woobie]

I'm sure there's more than one way to skin the cat, but Craig's class teaches limited grappling to tie up their weapon and access your own weapon. Wrist tie or elbow block to stop the free swinging knife, moving to tie up both their hands, then accessing your firearm or blade. His class assumes you are also armed, and the goal of the grappling isn't to grapple but to tie them up to access your own weapon.

Perhaps "skinning a cat" is an unfortunate metaphor for grappling with a knife-wielding assailant.

 

[Denny347]

I'm sure there's more than one way to skin the cat, but Craig's class teaches limited grappling to tie up their weapon and access your own weapon. Wrist tie or elbow block to stop the free swinging knife, moving to tie up both their hands, then accessing your firearm or blade. His class assumes you are also armed, and the goal of the grappling isn't to grapple but to tie them up to access your own weapon.

There certainly is. We were attacking the knife hand with both of our hands. We usually ended up slicing the crap out of the suspect with his own knife. It's all good stuff though.

 

[turbodiesel86]

Go get training today!

 

[rhino]

Sometimes, people concentrate too much on the gun.
I'm sure I can also be accused of that.
But up close.... you're right, hands on.
I've always thought this was a nice demonstration.

[video=youtube;9BNkOTTRW9o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BNkOTTRW9o[/video]

Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you get good shots to vital areas on target, it doesn't mean that it will stop the attacker soon enough to keep them from hurting or killing you. In the video demonstrations, the attacker drops when he his shot a couple of times. That's not what usually happens unless they believe they're supposed to drop when they get shot.

You may get really good hits on target and still have to use other means until the situation is resolved.

 

[HoughMade]

I don't want to wade through the Dddress talk in the shooter thread ad nauseum...so what happened to the OP?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't want to wade through the Dddress talk in the shooter thread ad nauseum...so what happened to the OP?

Shill account for someone who was already banned, per CM.