The Sub-Caliber Thread (anything below .22 welcomed)!!!

[two70]

Thanks for the feedback! I've looking primarily at CZ and Bergara. I've never shot a Tikka but YouTube seems to agree that the magazine is the greatest downfall for this rifle... thoughts?

I've had zero problems with mine but I've definitely seen comments online where others had issues. From what I gather it is a bit hit or miss but generally fixable with some tinkering.

 

[Basher]

Warms my heart to see this thread get some attention!

If you’re looking for a quality rifle without breaking the bank, the CZ 457 or Tikka T1x are what you seek. The Bergaras aren’t too much more and are also pretty nice.

I’ve not had much chance to do anything with my subcals as of late, too busy dealing with health stuff and work. I’m hoping to change that soon, but we’ll see. I have too many irons in the fire and may actually list one of my .17s depending on a few things. Work’s been erratic enough, and I have enough other projects that need finishing, that it may make more sense to let it go and build another later, we’ll see. If I do, I have to decide between a Martini Cadet in .17 Ackley Bee or my R700 in .17 Fireball. Logic says the FB will be more useful overall, but it would also be the easiest to replace by far. Decisions, decisions!

All that said, my 457 in .17HMR isn’t going anywhere any time soon!

 

[FN USA]

What kind of optics are people using for a mix of PRS and hunting. 6-24x, 4-18x...etc.

 

[two70]

Warms my heart to see this thread get some attention!

If you’re looking for a quality rifle without breaking the bank, the CZ 457 or Tikka T1x are what you seek. The Bergaras aren’t too much more and are also pretty nice.

I’ve not had much chance to do anything with my subcals as of late, too busy dealing with health stuff and work. I’m hoping to change that soon, but we’ll see. I have too many irons in the fire and may actually list one of my .17s depending on a few things. Work’s been erratic enough, and I have enough other projects that need finishing, that it may make more sense to let it go and build another later, we’ll see. If I do, I have to decide between a Martini Cadet in .17 Ackley Bee or my R700 in .17 Fireball. Logic says the FB will be more useful overall, but it would also be the easiest to replace by far. Decisions, decisions!

All that said, my 457 in .17HMR isn’t going anywhere any time soon!

Yes, the .17 fireball would be easier to replace but it probably won't be cheap if you want a rifle chambered in it from the factory! Even basic models chambered in the FB are selling for substantial prices on GB thanks to collectors. Special/rarer models are selling for even more ridiculous prices. Of course there are options to re-barrel or build a rifle for slightly les.

I looked for over 2.5 years and bid, briefly, on several rifles in .17 FB before I found one at a price I could live with. Even then, I ended up with a barreled action instead of a complete rifle.

 

[Basher]

Yes, the .17 fireball would be easier to replace but it probably won't be cheap if you want a rifle chambered in it from the factory! Even basic models chambered in the FB are selling for substantial prices on GB thanks to collectors. Special/rarer models are selling for even more ridiculous prices. Of course there are options to re-barrel or build a rifle for slightly les.

I looked for over 2.5 years and bid, briefly, on several rifles in .17 FB before I found one at a price I could live with. Even then, I ended up with a barreled action instead of a complete rifle.

That’s true. My other option is to let an FN TSR go. I don’t really want to sell anything (I’ve let plenty go already lol), but sometimes you gotta adult, am I right? I’m still thinking it over but will have to get the ball rolling at some point soon, so we’ll see.

Eric Mayer at Varminter Magazine recently did a video on an AR15 he built in .17FB that works well as long as it doesn’t get too dirty. The barrel itself is about $240, which is reasonable. I could build a basic upper for a few hundred bucks and be back in the FB game as a holdover until I can buy/build another bolt action at a reasonable cost. So that’s another option.

 

[two70]

That’s true. My other option is to let an FN TSR go. I don’t really want to sell anything (I’ve let plenty go already lol), but sometimes you gotta adult, am I right? I’m still thinking it over but will have to get the ball rolling at some point soon, so we’ll see.

Eric Mayer at Varminter Magazine recently did a video on an AR15 he built in .17FB that works well as long as it doesn’t get too dirty. The barrel itself is about $240, which is reasonable. I could build a basic upper for a few hundred bucks and be back in the FB game as a holdover until I can buy/build another bolt action at a reasonable cost. So that’s another option.

Yes, a Savage build should be doable for a relatively reasonable amount. I thought about an AR upper too before I found the barreled action but couldn't find much info on anyone building one or how well it fed. There's definitely more reasonable options if your not set on a factory original chambering. At least if you have to practice adulting with the FB, you should get a decent price out of it, though you may have to go the GB route to get top dollar.

 

[FN USA]

Okay, so I had coffee with a buddy of mine over the weekend. He went to his first .22 match a few months back and was talking to me about it, he might has swayed me back to .22LR vs the .17 HMR I was looking at....

 

[Creedmoor]

That’s true. My other option is to let an FN TSR go. I don’t really want to sell anything (I’ve let plenty go already lol), but sometimes you gotta adult, am I right? I’m still thinking it over but will have to get the ball rolling at some point soon, so we’ll see.

Eric Mayer at Varminter Magazine recently did a video on an AR15 he built in .17FB that works well as long as it doesn’t get too dirty. The barrel itself is about $240, which is reasonable. I could build a basic upper for a few hundred bucks and be back in the FB game as a holdover until I can buy/build another bolt action at a reasonable cost. So that’s another option.

A 19 Fireball or a 19-223 in a AR platform would interest me.

 

[Basher]

A 19 Fireball or a 19-223 in a AR platform would interest me.

My main issue with anything .19 is cost/availability. Finding .17 stuff is tough enough right now, if Calhoon ever closes shop I’m not sure where else you’d get projectiles. Cost isn’t TOO much more than .17 stuff, but enough so IMO.

I DO want one someday, though. But I think a .20 Practical or .20VT will come first.

 

[Bugzilla]

Well if nothing else, shooting these little guys is evidence that we’re not compensating for anything, if you catch my drift…

Are you saying the smaller the gun (caliber) the bigger the gun?

 

[Creedmoor]

My main issue with anything .19 is cost/availability. Finding .17 stuff is tough enough right now, if Calhoon ever closes shop I’m not sure where else you’d get projectiles. Cost isn’t TOO much more than .17 stuff, but enough so IMO.

I DO want one someday, though. But I think a .20 Practical or .20VT will come first.

I'm a firm believer that if something happened to Calhoon that business would be snapped up toot sweet. He has a very viable business. I have a few thousand of some of the 19 bullets he makes, so in essence a lifetime supply, 28, 32 and 36 grainers.
And if they were needed a simple 19 caliber size die and run 20 cal bullets through it.
The 19 caliber 32 grain blitz-kings are Sierra 20 caliber blitz-kings that they resize.

Are you having problems finding 17 caliber bullets to reload?
The sad part with 17 bullets was when Mr Berger sold his business, Lapua? stopped production of the little 15-18 grain 17 bullets. That was a loss.

Edit, Do you have Todd Kindlers Manuals?

 

[Basher]

I'm a firm believer that if something happened to Calhoon that business would be snapped up toot sweet. He has a very viable business. I have a few thousand of some of the 19 bullets he makes, so in essence a lifetime supply, 28, 32 and 36 grainers.
And if they were needed a simple 19 caliber size die and run 20 cal bullets through it.
The 19 caliber 32 grain blitz-kings are Sierra 20 caliber blitz-kings that they resize.

Are you having problems finding 17 caliber bullets to reload?
The sad part with 17 bullets was when Mr Berger sold his business, Lapua? stopped production of the little 15-18 grain 17 bullets. That was a loss.

I want to believe you, but the Woodchuck Den’s been closed for a few years now and so far nobody’s been willing to buy it. That was one of the premier suppliers of subcal supplies, so if no one’s been willing yo take up the torch I’m not sure it would happen with Calhoon. Only one way to know though, and hopefully it never comes to that. But yes, putting .20s through a sizing die would keep you running.

As for finding .17 stuff, it’s not impossible but it is tough, especially anything heavier than 20gr. Several niche bullet makers are either out of business or have passed. As you note, Berger doesn’t make .17s now (or at least hasn’t for some time with no solid indication that’ll change). That leaves Hornady and Nosler. Nosler only lists 20gr, and Hornady only does very small and infrequent runs of 25gr V-Max. I managed to stock up on the 25gr HPs, but only just barely. So that leaves 15.5gr NXT, 20gr V-Max, or Nosler 20gr Varmageddon. A very few heavier options exist but they’re quite expensive and not readily available.

 

[Remington 90T]

Well if nothing else, shooting these little guys is evidence that we’re not compensating for anything, if you catch my drift…

I do catch your drift -- that's why I got out of the 17"s --Praire dogs always are hunted in a wind -Anyways every time I have hunted them - Thats one thing that doesn't do well with the 17cal.

 

[Creedmoor]

I want to believe you, but the Woodchuck Den’s been closed for a few years now and so far nobody’s been willing to buy it. That was one of the premier suppliers of subcal supplies, so if no one’s been willing yo take up the torch I’m not sure it would happen with Calhoon. Only one way to know though, and hopefully it never comes to that. But yes, putting .20s through a sizing die would keep you running.

As for finding .17 stuff, it’s not impossible but it is tough, especially anything heavier than 20gr. Several niche bullet makers are either out of business or have passed. As you note, Berger doesn’t make .17s now (or at least hasn’t for some time with no solid indication that’ll change). That leaves Hornady and Nosler. Nosler only lists 20gr, and Hornady only does very small and infrequent runs of 25gr V-Max. I managed to stock up on the 25gr HPs, but only just barely. So that leaves 15.5gr NXT, 20gr V-Max, or Nosler 20gr Varmageddon. A very few heavier options exist but they’re quite expensive and not readily available.

Yea, but other than Todd making a few bullets and forming some cases he was just a reseller. One could buy cheaper elsewhere.
You bought what you needed from him in the beginning and that was it.
And guys like me bought his vol one and two books and a few sets of dies and that was it.
It was generally faster to just order dies from Redding direct. I will say we talked a lot years ago when Cooper came out with the model 38 action and a few wildcats to go with it.
Hes a super knowledgeable guy in that world.
The main bullets we shoot in 17 are the Dogtown/Midway and the Monsters/Midsouth in 20 grain, I believe they are import Noslers? from down under. When they have them in stock I will usually buy another 500. When I see 15-18 Bergers at a shop or show, I pony up and pay what they want.

One question I have is, have you shot the 15.5 NXT's yet?
I bought a sleeve of them but I haven't shot any yet.

And with you saying the 25 gn V Max are hard to get, I checked in stock at Midway and Midsouth, I just ordered 600 from Midsouth. There were a few bucks cheaper,and midway had a max order of three boxes. THANKS

 

[Creedmoor]

I do catch your drift -- that's why I got out of the 17"s --Praire dogs always are hunted in a wind -Anyways every time I have hunted them - Thats one thing that doesn't do well with the 17cal.

Long time sub-caliber guy here.
I gotta ask, What cartridge, factory or your reloads,and what distance were you shooting 17's.

 

[Remington 90T]

22mag -17HRM factory Remington out to 150 yards --22-250 Mid range and 257 Roberts For the ones you could only see through the glass. 22 mag. held up better at that range than the 17HRM, much easier figuring drop than windage between the two. Main problem was keeping them all cool - Great fun

Long time sub-caliber guy here.
I gotta ask, What cartridge, factory or your reloads,and what distance were you shooting 17's.

 

[Creedmoor]

22mag -17HRM factory Remington out to 150 yards --22-250 Mid range and 257 Roberts For the ones you could only see through the glass. 22 mag. held up better at that range than the 17HRM, much easier figuring drop than windage between the two. Main problem was keeping them all cool - Great fun

The only 17 rimfire in our stable in my Thing 2's 17 M2 Chipmonk that he used as a small child for ground hogs from 75-100 yds or so.
I shoot centerfire 17's, Like a 17 Squirrel, which is a Hornet case about cut in half and it will push a 25 grainer about 2,600 fps. It will easily do 3,000 with 15 grain pills. 200 yd rifle
The next is 17CCM, with 15 grainers its a 300 yd rifle.
And another is 17 Heebee and that's a 218 Bee case necked down and the case is blown out.
It will push a 25 grainer 3,900 fps. A 15 -18 grainer easily over 4,000 fps. A 400 yd rifle.
The Heebee will get out to 400yds so fast, theirs not much time for the wind to impede on it.
We also play with 19 caliber wildcats. A few oldies like 22 Jet and 256 Win Mag.
The biggest plus with the littles one is, they dont get the barrel hot, cheap to reload and shoot and they dont have that 22-250 BLAST down the valley.
They have gotten us access to farms just because they are so much quieter.

 

[Remington 90T]

Quite the stable of 17's -At 70, the old fingers have a hard time reloading rifle anymore. Especially trying to handle those little 15 grain pills. Still can pull the handle for my shotgun reloader - Made my last trip out west just to burn up some old reloads and give the old guns some fun.

 

[two70]

I want to believe you, but the Woodchuck Den’s been closed for a few years now and so far nobody’s been willing to buy it. That was one of the premier suppliers of subcal supplies, so if no one’s been willing yo take up the torch I’m not sure it would happen with Calhoon. Only one way to know though, and hopefully it never comes to that. But yes, putting .20s through a sizing die would keep you running.

As for finding .17 stuff, it’s not impossible but it is tough, especially anything heavier than 20gr. Several niche bullet makers are either out of business or have passed. As you note, Berger doesn’t make .17s now (or at least hasn’t for some time with no solid indication that’ll change). That leaves Hornady and Nosler. Nosler only lists 20gr, and Hornady only does very small and infrequent runs of 25gr V-Max. I managed to stock up on the 25gr HPs, but only just barely. So that leaves 15.5gr NXT, 20gr V-Max, or Nosler 20gr Varmageddon. A very few heavier options exist but they’re quite expensive and not readily available.

FYI, Grafs currently has 25gr Hornady V-Max bullets in stock.

 

[JimH]

If anybody is looking,I put a nib CZ .17 hornet in the classifieds.