The Millionaire Cop Next Door

[JBusch8899]

How many people will pay for a ticket to an art show compared to a basketball game or football game? A lot of schools are going to the pay to play idea in a lot of sports.

You are presenting an economic argument, while I'm attempting to present a moral imperative to support education within the schools, rather than sacrificing it to preserve school sporting events.

Those who do not see the benefit of the Arts upon society, do not understand one of the large purposes of living. People who do not know, for example, that music and mathematics are intrinsically related, are also ignorant of the historical significances of such.

Pay to play is fine. However, the true economic cost to play in school, is much more than a student ability to do so. Its more accurate to state, "Student subsidizes a portion to school to play".

 

[irishfan]

You are presenting an economic argument, while I'm attempting to present a moral imperative to support education within the schools, rather than sacrificing it to preserve school sporting events.

Those who do not see the benefit of the Arts upon society, do not understand one of the large purposes of living. People who do not know, for example, that music and mathematics are intrinsically related, are also ignorant of the historical significances of such.

Pay to play is fine. However, the true economic cost to play in school, is much more than a student ability to do so. Its more accurate to state, "Student subsidizes a portion to school to play".

I don't like the idea of art, music, and other once fundamental classes being taken out of schools. However, I don't have a problem with taking them out if it is a decision between that and basic classes like math, history, science and so on. It is ridiculous to think that physical education should be cut from the curriculum but it seems that most administrators have no issue with letting it go either.
Much like the government as a whole I feel that schools have to many administrators in paid positions. How many people really need a secretary or how many clerks are really needed? It seems like my local government has a hundred clerks and secretary positions which makes you wonder how many are really needed? Also, how many supervisor positions are needed for LEO's and other service agencies? Maybe if government jobs had more responsibility put on individuals and more accountability we would have less cost to the public.

 

[UncleMike]

]"Brain Drain" is something that affects a lot of the rural police departments; the ones with only a handful of officers. They hire a guy, pay to put him through the police academy and then once they have that training they apply to the better funded city police departments and they have an edge in the hiring process because they already have the expense of academy training under their belt. They get hired away and the small town P.D. has to start the hiring process all over again. Thus what you will see in a lot (but not all) small town P.D. are rookies[/COLOR] and guys that can't get hired anywhere else.

That has become a big deal for many smaller Departments! Some have even considered having new Officers sign a contract requiring that they will remain with the hiring Department for a specified time period. From what I understand that approach has not held up to the scrutiny of the Courts since in smacks of Indentured Servitude.
Again, things have changed. During my career I only knew one Officer who hired on to a smaller Department with the goal of moving to a larger Department when the opportunity arose.
Most of us were "Home Town" guys/gals and had a sense of obligation to the Community that we were born in.
The times, they are a'changin.

Mike

 

[hornadylnl]

I don't like the idea of art, music, and other once fundamental classes being taken out of schools. However, I don't have a problem with taking them out if it is a decision between that and basic classes like math, history, science and so on. It is ridiculous to think that physical education should be cut from the curriculum but it seems that most administrators have no issue with letting it go either.
Much like the government as a whole I feel that schools have to many administrators in paid positions. How many people really need a secretary or how many clerks are really needed? It seems like my local government has a hundred clerks and secretary positions which makes you wonder how many are really needed? Also, how many supervisor positions are needed for LEO's and other service agencies? Maybe if government jobs had more responsibility put on individuals and more accountability we would have less cost to the public.

every government employee I've ever met had so much work that they couldn't keep up if they worked 25 hours a day and 8 days a week. At least to hear them tell it anyway.

$60k may not seem like much but look at it from another perspective. That's $30 an hour. How many blue collar workers out there makes $30 an hour? If a family of 4 can't live very nicely on $30 an hour, I seriously challenge their financial intelligence.

 

[JBusch8899]

I don't like the idea of art, music, and other once fundamental classes being taken out of schools. However, I don't have a problem with taking them out if it is a decision between that and basic classes like math, history, science and so on. It is ridiculous to think that physical education should be cut from the curriculum but it seems that most administrators have no issue with letting it go either.

To that, I leave a quote:

".....And medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for. To quote from Whitman, "O me! O life!... of the questions of these recurring; of the endless trains of the faithless... of cities filled with the foolish; what good amid these, O me, O life?" Answer. That you are here - that life exists, and identity; that the powerful play goes on and you may contribute a verse. That the powerful play goes on and you may contribute a verse. What will your verse be?"

 

[lashicoN]

Well, since I'm on everyone's ignore list, I guess I'll just talk to myself.

Regarding all of Lashicon's posts: They have been some of the dumbest things I have seen on this site... I would try to correct your point of view, lashicon, but YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

Also, being of Norse lineage I hope you are just hijacking the viking ship for your Avatar and not actually one of us. But there was a village idiot who disappeared from Arendal years ago, so there is always the possibility.........

Here I'm being called dumb, stupid, and the village idiot. Later, people will accuse me of not being civil, being closed minded, causing them to put me on their ignore list. The personal attacks never seem to stop, and the best part, I get blamed for all of these attacks. By the way, you can't CORRECT a point of view, DanO, because it's a point of view. My statements aren't the concrete truth, just my point of view.

Try the "Ignore" feature. It helps keep your blood pressure down.
At least it does for me.
Mike

Not allowing for debate on any of your ideas does keep your blood pressure down. It also keeps you in a small dark room filled with only your own thoughts. Ignorance spreads like cancer when you close the door off to anyone else's points of view.

i believe that LEO's should be some of the highest paid possitions there are. we need to make it attractive to upstanding citizens, as well as reward them for the desire to help others. quote]

I used to believe this also. But thanks to people like Burnie Madoff I now believe there is no limit for greed. If you pay people more money, they will simply want more money. The people working on Wall Street were paid a lot of money, and it didn't improve their work or make them nicer people. It just made them want even more money.

So based on that reasoning professional athletes shouldn't be paid anything to play games. My daughter loves playing games but she doesn't make a dime for doing so. The same should go for adults that do nothing but go out and kick, throw, hit, or dribble a ball as their "profession."

As far as I know, my tax dollars aren't funding the NBA, and I agreed with Smoking357 that it is ridiculous that we (tax payers) should have to fund public school sports programs.

I don't think what I'm saying is all that ridiculous.

Servant:: one that serves others <a public servant>; especially : one that performs duties about the person or home of a master or personal employer

Tax payers are the masters, public servants are the servants. If it were possible, I wish all public employees and every working person could be paid a trillion dollars an hour, unfortunately, I live in the realm of possibilities. It isn't always nice there, but I do know what's possible and what isn't possible. I also know that programs like these are what kill nations. If you create an incentive to work as a public employee rather than a private employee/owner, then you take all of the money out of the equation and no one gets paid. Public workers should NEVER get paid more than private workers. As I've said before, we pay for everything, public employees just shuffle our money around. What happens when the money stops coming and we all work for the state? Who WOULDN'T want to be paid $70,000.00 each year of retirement? As I said before, I don't live in the land of dreams and wishes, so I know that it isn't possible to offer that option to anyone, because EVERYONE will want to choose that option, which is why we have so many public employees at this time. Go ahead and keep dreaming though, one day you'll wake up and I'll still be here, saying "told you so, it's too late now." You better just add me to your ignore list and hurry back to your comfortable land of dreams and wishes.

 

[Fargo]

every government employee I've ever met had so much work that they couldn't keep up if they worked 25 hours a day and 8 days a week. At least to hear them tell it anyway.

$60k may not seem like much but look at it from another perspective. That's $30 an hour. How many blue collar workers out there makes $30 an hour? If a family of 4 can't live very nicely on $30 an hour, I seriously challenge their financial intelligence.

Where are you getting the idea that gov't employee's make anything close to 60K? I'm an attorney and I barely make over 50K. Public employee's salaries are public record. Here they are printed in the paper annually. You should avail yourself of that resource if you think that public employees average anywhere near 60k a year.


Joe

 

[Eddie]

Well, since I'm on everyone's ignore list, I guess I'll just talk to myself.




Here I'm being called dumb, stupid, and the village idiot. Later, people will accuse me of not being civil, being closed minded, causing them to put me on their ignore list. The personal attacks never seem to stop, and the best part, I get blamed for all of these attacks. By the way, you can't CORRECT a point of view, DanO, because it's a point of view. My statements aren't the concrete truth, just my point of view.



Not allowing for debate on any of your ideas does keep your blood pressure down. It also keeps you in a small dark room filled with only your own thoughts. Ignorance spreads like cancer when you close the door off to anyone else's points of view.

i believe that LEO's should be some of the highest paid possitions there are. we need to make it attractive to upstanding citizens, as well as reward them for the desire to help others. quote]

I used to believe this also. But thanks to people like Burnie Madoff I now believe there is no limit for greed. If you pay people more money, they will simply want more money. The people working on Wall Street were paid a lot of money, and it didn't improve their work or make them nicer people. It just made them want even more money.



As far as I know, my tax dollars aren't funding the NBA, and I agreed with Smoking357 that it is ridiculous that we (tax payers) should have to fund public school sports programs.

I don't think what I'm saying is all that ridiculous.

Servant:: one that serves others <a public servant>; especially : one that performs duties about the person or home of a master or personal employer

Tax payers are the masters, public servants are the servants. If it were possible, I wish all public employees and every working person could be paid a trillion dollars an hour, unfortunately, I live in the realm of possibilities. It isn't always nice there, but I do know what's possible and what isn't possible. I also know that programs like these are what kill nations. If you create an incentive to work as a public employee rather than a private employee/owner, then you take all of the money out of the equation and no one gets paid. Public workers should NEVER get paid more than private workers. As I've said before, we pay for everything, public employees just shuffle our money around. What happens when the money stops coming and we all work for the state? Who WOULDN'T want to be paid $70,000.00 each year of retirement? As I said before, I don't live in the land of dreams and wishes, so I know that it isn't possible to offer that option to anyone, because EVERYONE will want to choose that option, which is why we have so many public employees at this time. Go ahead and keep dreaming though, one day you'll wake up and I'll still be here, saying "told you so, it's too late now." You better just add me to your ignore list and hurry back to your comfortable land of dreams and wishes.

So you've said over and over again what you don't like, how would you fix it? Are you advocating moving towards privatization of police and fire services or just cutting the budget down until they make less than private security guards?

A lot of ambulance services are private; the county takes bids every few years and goes with the low bidder. Some counties take quotes instead of bids and look at things like the quality of the trucks and the level of training of the personel. Of course, better people means more money. Our county wanted paramedic service but found out they just couldn't afford it. What sort of cops and firemen will be showing up on calls if we cut their pay back to $15,000 a year with no benefits?

If you were king for a day what would you do to change the system?

 

[JBusch8899]

If you were king for a day what would you do to change the system?

I would reinstall a bit of common sense back into government.

While Taylor's scientific theory states that money is the prime motivator for individuals to perform their occupation, and a number of employee polls claim that money is the overall factor to employee happiness; subsequent studies demonstrate that throwing money at employees is not the key to employee longevity or happiness.

Herzberg, Tannenbaum, Schmidt, McGregor, Maslow, Hersy, Blanchard, Tuckman, and a continuing list of others, state that such motivators as self esteem, team building, contributions, and a host of other organic motivators, are more important than cash.

 

[hornadylnl]

Where are you getting the idea that gov't employee's make anything close to 60K? I'm an attorney and I barely make over 50K. Public employee's salaries are public record. Here they are printed in the paper annually. You should avail yourself of that resource if you think that public employees average anywhere near 60k a year.


Joe

I make $60,000 a year.

Ok, you're only making $50k a year. That's just a measly $25 an hour. Who would work for that? I make $20 an hour doing a skilled maintenance job in a non union shop. The highest paid laborer is making about $16 an hour and our temporaries are making $10-12 an hour. I'm sure many on the unemployment roles right now would be thrilled with $10 an hour. No, maybe they'd just turn their noses up at $25. I can assure you that my factory pays a good bit more than most other non union shops in this state.

 

[irishfan]

Ok, you're only making $50k a year. That's just a measly $25 an hour. Who would work for that? I make $20 an hour doing a skilled maintenance job in a non union shop. The highest paid laborer is making about $16 an hour and our temporaries are making $10-12 an hour. I'm sure many on the unemployment roles right now would be thrilled with $10 an hour. No, maybe they'd just turn their noses up at $25. I can assure you that my factory pays a good bit more than most other non union shops in this state.

Hey sounds like a great place...post the name and address so some currently unemployed INGO people can find a good job.

If you can't make it on $40k a year then you have a severe issue of needing to figure out your finances. Yes IT CAN BE DONE!!! None of us want to live on just $30k when we desire the things that cost more but it is up to you to achieve that goal yourself. A police officer can often find side work as security or other tasks to help their income reach a more desireable level but they will not get rich being a LEO. It is a job of service and not a job of wealth.

 

[JBusch8899]

It is a job of service and not a job of wealth.

Hasn't anyone ever heard of an occupation being "A labor of love?"

Theres many out there, and at least one for everyone

 

[E5RANGER375]

Hasn't anyone ever heard of an occupation being "A labor of love?"

Theres many out there, and at least one for everyone

yeah i thnk that phrase was started by a rich guy who wanted to make all the profits from people who did the dirty work in this country. somewhere we got off track and started making people feel like its wrong to be happy that you make good money doing what you love, or that you should appologize for it. but its the true American Dream.

If your busting your azz for pennies and some dusch bag is sitting in an air conditioned office not even knowing how the company works, but still making double or tripple what you make, then thats wrong. the higher up the chain you go the lazier the people get, and the more $$ they make. its all about patting each other on the back and stomping on the average man.

Public Servants ARE there to serve us (not as slaves but in their line of professional work) but they dont need to do their job for pennies. They deserve to make a lot of money as long as they are doing a good job and enforcing the law and not personal agendas. Im tired of people who just accept BS political answers and dont do anything to change it. I'd much rather give more money to a Police Officer who could save my life rather than a corrupt politician.

 

[hornadylnl]

Hey sounds like a great place...post the name and address so some currently unemployed INGO people can find a good job.

If you can't make it on $40k a year then you have a severe issue of needing to figure out your finances. Yes IT CAN BE DONE!!! None of us want to live on just $30k when we desire the things that cost more but it is up to you to achieve that goal yourself. A police officer can often find side work as security or other tasks to help their income reach a more desireable level but they will not get rich being a LEO. It is a job of service and not a job of wealth.

You'd have to contact this place for temporary work. I'm not sure, but I imagine they are still looking for people at my plant.

Cti Personnel in Lafayette, Indiana. (in.) #16456113

BTW, I don't begrudge a public employee making $50k. What I don't like is the attitude some seem to be projecting when the citizens who are struggling to find any job, keep their homes, pay their rent etc are fed up with having to pay more taxes so public employees can keep their full salaries. It seems to be an attitude of contempt for those paying their salaries.

What percentage of homes are under foreclosure now? What percentage of the income tax base has evaporated? Do our public employees have the gall to expect those who are still working to pick up the tab for those that aren't so mister public employee doesn't have to take a pay cut?

I made over $8,100 less in 09 than I did in 08. I guess they should just raise my taxes to cover the shortfall from my loss of income. Wouldn't want a public employee to feel the pain of the recession.

 

[irishfan]

You'd have to contact this place for temporary work. I'm not sure, but I imagine they are still looking for people at my plant.

Cti Personnel in Lafayette, Indiana. (in.) #16456113

BTW, I don't begrudge a public employee making $50k. What I don't like is the attitude some seem to be projecting when the citizens who are struggling to find any job, keep their homes, pay their rent etc are fed up with having to pay more taxes so public employees can keep their full salaries. It seems to be an attitude of contempt for those paying their salaries.

What percentage of homes are under foreclosure now? What percentage of the income tax base has evaporated? Do our public employees have the gall to expect those who are still working to pick up the tab for those that aren't so mister public employee doesn't have to take a pay cut?

I made over $8,100 less in 09 than I did in 08. I guess they should just raise my taxes to cover the shortfall from my loss of income. Wouldn't want a public employee to feel the pain of the recession.

While I agree somewhat about the public employees taking a pay cut to keep people working it seems to be lost on you that many departments have cut jobs.

 

[hornadylnl]

While I agree somewhat about the public employees taking a pay cut to keep people working it seems to be lost on you that many departments have cut jobs.

I know that some departments have cut jobs. It would be interesting to see the number of public employees of all types getting their jobs cut compared to private employees. In Dec. of 08, my employer cut about 40% of it's workforce, I believe.

There were several in my department who were making $22 an hour. Some have come back through a temp agency for about $17 an hour. I know one guy who is now working as a school janitor for $11-12 an hour.

These town, city, county governments that are actually cutting back are being dragged kicking and screaming to do so. My county was several million in the hole a few years ago. No matter what any councilman or commissioner suggests to cut, those agencies are front and center demanding their budgets remain intact.

 

[irishfan]

I know that some departments have cut jobs. It would be interesting to see the number of public employees of all types getting their jobs cut compared to private employees. In Dec. of 08, my employer cut about 40% of it's workforce, I believe.

There were several in my department who were making $22 an hour. Some have come back through a temp agency for about $17 an hour. I know one guy who is now working as a school janitor for $11-12 an hour.

These town, city, county governments that are actually cutting back are being dragged kicking and screaming to do so. My county was several million in the hole a few years ago. No matter what any councilman or commissioner suggests to cut, those agencies are front and center demanding their budgets remain intact.

So your company is openly screwing people by giving their old job back at a largely reduced rate? Personally, I feel that a lot of smaller town officials should be unpaid jobs as well as some cuts in payrolls IF ends are not meeting. If you cut to many service jobs such as police, fire, and maintenance workers you will see an even worse situation occur with breakdown of society.

 

[hornadylnl]

So your company is openly screwing people by giving their old job back at a largely reduced rate? Personally, I feel that a lot of smaller town officials should be unpaid jobs as well as some cuts in payrolls IF ends are not meeting. If you cut to many service jobs such as police, fire, and maintenance workers you will see an even worse situation occur with breakdown of society.

My company gave all their employees that laid off 1 year recall rights. If they got called back within that year, they came back to their seniority, pay, etc but no vacation time if they were off so many hours. They called a few back here and there over the course of that year. They were laid of in Dec. of 08 and they didn't really start bringing temps in til the spring of this year.

In the early 2000's, my company nearly went bankrupt building 30,000 units. We skated by on 13,000 units last year. My company didn't take laying of 800 people lightly. If they wanted to keep the doors open and the other 1000 people still working, they had to make that choice.

How long are they supposed to give laid off people recall rights? How many employers would offer recall rights at all?

 

[Fargo]

I know that some departments have cut jobs. It would be interesting to see the number of public employees of all types getting their jobs cut compared to private employees. In Dec. of 08, my employer cut about 40% of it's workforce, I believe.

There were several in my department who were making $22 an hour. Some have come back through a temp agency for about $17 an hour. I know one guy who is now working as a school janitor for $11-12 an hour.

These town, city, county governments that are actually cutting back are being dragged kicking and screaming to do so. My county was several million in the hole a few years ago. No matter what any councilman or commissioner suggests to cut, those agencies are front and center demanding their budgets remain intact.

Every county employee in my county took a 3% pay cut this year. My office eliminated approximately 17% of its attorney positions. We are a constitutionally mandated office.

Alot of the private sector job cuts are the result of irresponsible growth/spending/loaning. I'm not saying the gov't is responsible by any stretch of the imagination, but at least the local gov't here has been decently responsible. That is why it is more stable than say alot of the homebuilders and financial institutions which loaned vast amounts of money to people they knew could never pay it back.


Joe

 

[Eddie]

Just FYI, the nearest City P.D. to my house pays $24,000 a year to its patrolmen. That works out to about $11.00 an hour and I think they are the highest paid cops in the county.