The Insane "Social Justice" Thread II

[Kutnupe14]

There is always a lottery that could help decide who should go. All being equal, there is a near zero chance objective decisions can be made.


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I'd agree with this as well.

 

[BugI02]

As I said, I don't value basing any choices on race, but there is some value in cultural diversity. The nation is full of different cultures. Many students go to college having never really experienced the diversity of cultures we have just in the US, let alone the world. I'm not even talking about cultures which are tightly coupled to race. I've lived in enough regions of the country to know each one has their own cultures, social norms, etcetera. There isn't a "white" culture.

If it's a tie otherwise, there are a lot better ways to determine which students they want to come to their university. Black student with 3.75, rich parents--both of them! Vs white student 3.75 from the trailer park, single mom, both have identical SATs, you pick the one who overcame more. And of course the same if it's the Black student from a poor single-parent family who overcame more.

I think if you go down that road you will never have that level playing field. Any adjustments are amenable to excesses and abuse, tweaking to achieve the desired outcome of the moment. I really think the best you can do is provide true equality of opportunity, attempting to achieve desired outcomes can wind up like Harvard massaging criteria to prevent 'too many asians' in any given class

I would prefer to see the energy spent on affirmative action for diverse viewpoints among the professors at the collegiate level before we worry about how representative the racial makeup of any class will be. A cursory review of the current quality of the output of academia should give anyone pause

 

[jamil]

I view overcoming adversity as merit. Of course if even that is equal there needs to be some fair way to determine who should get in. Maybe that’s a lottery. Maybe you award points for GPA, difficulty of HS schedule, Standardized test scores, extracurricular activities, community service, overcoming adversity, and then have a cutoff. Have so many spots below that, and do lottery to figure out who wins the spots.

Agreed on the diversity of opinion in faculty though. They’re state public schools. Ideological diversity should be a requirement.

 

[BugI02]

I view overcoming adversity as merit. Of course if even that is equal there needs to be some fair way to determine who should get in. Maybe that’s a lottery. Maybe you award points for GPA, difficulty of HS schedule, Standardized test scores, extracurricular activities, community service, overcoming adversity, and then have a cutoff. Have so many spots below that, and do lottery to figure out who wins the spots.

Agreed on the diversity of opinion in faculty though. They’re state public schools. Ideological diversity should be a requirement.

I still have to disagree. If I understand it correctly, the whole Harvard asian thing was a point value misuse. The 'selectors' were awarding points for personality and arbitrarily decided to award all asians the lowest score in order to depress the number of asians eligible for admittance, and did so for an overarching discriminatory purpose

Even points for military service are open for 'massaging'. Should a tour in the Coast Guard be as valued as a combat tour in the sandbox, should service in a rear echelon be as valued as service at the pointy end

I think subjectivity should be eliminated from initial qualification, it should be definitive scores on standardized testing and a straight-up competition based on scoring. Standardized testing is vulnerable to shading based on test prep, but you will never realistically eliminate the advantages potentially conferred by affluence

I think there is still a place for an interview of the candidates, but they should already be peers based on their entrance exam scores. I would support absolving a potential candidate for a curtailed extra-curricular profile if he was working to make ends meet/save for school, and I would not support interviews being used to sift for a particular world view - it should only be used like I would interview a potential team member (i.e.: do you really know your stuff and do you play well with others)

 

[jamil]

I still have to disagree. If I understand it correctly, the whole Harvard asian thing was a point value misuse. The 'selectors' were awarding points for personality and arbitrarily decided to award all asians the lowest score in order to depress the number of asians eligible for admittance, and did so for an overarching discriminatory purpose

Even points for military service are open for 'massaging'. Should a tour in the Coast Guard be as valued as a combat tour in the sandbox, should service in a rear echelon be as valued as service at the pointy end

I think subjectivity should be eliminated from initial qualification, it should be definitive scores on standardized testing and a straight-up competition based on scoring. Standardized testing is vulnerable to shading based on test prep, but you will never realistically eliminate the advantages potentially conferred by affluence

I think there is still a place for an interview of the candidates, but they should already be peers based on their entrance exam scores. I would support absolving a potential candidate for a curtailed extra-curricular profile if he was working to make ends meet/save for school, and I would not support interviews being used to sift for a particular world view - it should only be used like I would interview a potential team member (i.e.: do you really know your stuff and do you play well with others)

all the things I proposed are objective. The asian personality thing is racist. They’re attaching negative personality to an entire race. Personality is objective, if they objectively measure it. And if they do, not all Asians have the same personality. If here is a quality that’s valuable to the university and objectively determined, and not discriminating based on race or sex or other immutable features like those, I really don’t see a reason they can’t be admissions criteria.

 

[BugI02]

all the things I proposed are objective. The asian personality thing is racist. They’re attaching negative personality to an entire race. Personality is objective, if they objectively measure it. And if they do, not all Asians have the same personality. If here is a quality that’s valuable to the university and objectively determined, and not discriminating based on race or sex or other immutable features like those, I really don’t see a reason they can’t be admissions criteria.

So you'd be comfortable with the current situation, where progressive views are considered valuable to some universities? How can abstracts be objectively determined? Who watches the watchers?

 

[jamil]

So you'd be comfortable with the current situation, where progressive views are considered valuable to some universities? How can abstracts be objectively determined? Who watches the watchers?

What? When did I say I was comfortable with the current situation. Or any of that?

So your saying...

 

[BugI02]

“If there is a quality that’s valuable to the university and objectively determined, and not discriminating based on race or sex or other immutable features like those, I really don’t see a reason they can’t be admissions criteria”

That’s the reason I asked how you objectively determine an abstract. What’s to prevent an Uber progressive college from deciding a progressive world view is valuable to that university. Do you think an avowed conservative would have an equal chance of acceptance at UC Berkeley except by brute force of grades (and maybe not even then). So will you then set rules to prevent discrimination based on political views and if so who will write and enforce those. Thus, who watches the watchers

 

[jamil]

“If there is a quality that’s valuable to the university and objectively determined, and not discriminating based on race or sex or other immutable features like those, I really don’t see a reason they can’t be admissions criteria”

That’s the reason I asked how you objectively determine an abstract. What’s to prevent an Uber progressive college from deciding a progressive world view is valuable to that university. Do you think an avowed conservative would have an equal chance of acceptance at UC Berkeley except by brute force of grades (and maybe not even then). So will you then set rules to prevent discrimination based on political views and if so who will write and enforce those. Thus, who watches the watchers

So do they ask if you’re a Nazi on the admissions application? It’s possible to determine objectively what are your political leanings. It’s possible to determine objectively if you’ve overcome hardships. C’mon, man. We’re talking about the possible ways the University admissions criteria could be made fairer. If they’re asking your party affiliation on admissions applications, especially for public universities, we didn’t win.

 

[patience0830]

all the things I proposed are objective. The asian personality thing is racist. They’re attaching negative personality to an entire race. Personality is objective, if they objectively measure it. And if they do, not all Asians have the same personality. If here is a quality that’s valuable to the university and objectively determined, and not discriminating based on race or sex or other immutable features like those, I really don’t see a reason they can’t be admissions criteria.

Almost any admission criteria except performance can be massaged/ lied about to make it look more advantageous.

First come, first serve. For all with ability to keep a C average and the desire to succeed.


Financial aid is a whole nother cesspool.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I mean, it is "The Root"...

 

[indiucky]

 

[indiucky]

 

[KLB]

Too funny

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Facebook Flagged The Declaration Of Independence As Hate Speech

 

[indiucky]

 

[indiucky]

 

[HoughMade]

Come at me.....xro

 

[actaeon277]

Yesterday, I took a crap that scared me more than that

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yesterday, I took a crap that scared me more than that

Well, it's a picture... so....