The Ferguson thread

[SEIndSAM]

I watched the interview with Officer Wilson, and one thing really strikes out to me. Wilson states that when Brown grabbed his handgun, and Wilson tried to pull the trigger, it would not fire because Brown had his hand on top of the gun. That obviously makes zero sense. The only thing I can think of is that the gun may have been a double action, and brown had his hand on the hammer, and this prevented it from cocking back and firing.

Here is a link to the interview. What do you all think?
https://gma.yahoo.com/ferguson-officer-darren-wilson-having-baby-125121474--abc-news-topstories.html

Perhaps with Browns hand on the top of the gun, it was pulled slightly out of battery?

 

[Dead Duck]

I watched the interview with Officer Wilson, and one thing really strikes out to me. Wilson states that when Brown grabbed his handgun, and Wilson tried to pull the trigger, it would not fire because Brown had his hand on top of the gun. That obviously makes zero sense. The only thing I can think of is that the gun may have been a double action, and brown had his hand on the hammer, and this prevented it from cocking back and firing.

Here is a link to the interview. What do you all think?
https://gma.yahoo.com/ferguson-officer-darren-wilson-having-baby-125121474--abc-news-topstories.html

Slide might have been back a bit.


*Edit* - I got beat 3 fold.

 

[jamil]

Dang it's hard to keep up with this thread.

Just wondering if anyone notice a difference between a liberal, and a more conservative new agency... Start any race wars lately?

I think that THIS ^^^^ Is the real reason behind THIS vvvv

So the media is now blaming the prosecutor for the riots. He got everybody's hopes up by sending it to a GJ and if he had just not sent it to a GJ this never would have happened

Apparently riots are good business for 24hour news channels who normally have cellar ratings. Whodda thunk?

No. It's not OK. Being angry is OK. Physically acting out is not. From the article: "The anger in Ferguson is undeniable. The looting and the fires completely unacceptable. But what bothers me most is that to many people, none of this is understandable."

I understand THAT they are angry. I understand WHY they are angry. I don't agree with their reaction to anger; they're acting like children having a temper tantrum, which is exactly what the prosecutor, Obama, and idiots like Sharpton and Jackson (not specifically in this case, but those of their ilk) want to happen. When you create unrest, when you incite riots from behind a camera and/or teleprompter and a position of power and/or influence, you often do so with a goal of declaring martial law, or as close to it as you have the ability to declare, such as having police in riot gear, smacking more heads and causing more unrest.

Granted, we're only getting one side of the story, but Wilson's interview with Stephanopolous was pretty clear. He did what he was supposed to do.

Sadly, the masses in the "burn this m*****f***** down" crowd were whipped up and would not consider anything short of Wilson being violently killed as "justice". Had he been indicted and not convicted, we would have seen the same. Had he been convicted and not executed, we'd have seen the same. Had he been executed, we would have seen the same, but in "celebration".

It's sad. The only way out of this would have been for the "story" to have been, "Man attacks officer, is killed." No race-baiting, no community uprising, no Sharpton/Jackson antics... as Joe Friday is often misquoted, "Just the facts."

Blessings,
Bill

What bothers me is that these people can't bring their imaginations to ponder the "what ifs", namely, what if Michael Brown was a bully and a thug, who just robbed a convenience store, and then escalated violence against a police officer to the point where the officer had to use deadly force to protect his own life?

But no, try to wrench contrived righteous indignation from people who already believe they're victims, and you'll be the bad guy. That kind of "oppression" is just too savory to let go to waste.

 

[chipbennett]

I am OK with the body cameras, depending on the policy that is driving them. If they are going to be actively recording my entire 8.5 hour shift then I say no way, absolutely not. If they are going to be recording only citizen interactions, I am OK with that. I don't need or want the department storing footage of me taking a dump, getting some Starbucks, pumping gas etc.....

This is reasonable. Perhaps there would be some way to tie in the camera to the radio, so that it starts recording based on the radio transmission?

I think everyone wins. Guns and cameras carried by the law-abiding is a rising the tide of civility that lifts the behavior of all ships. (If I may strain a borrowed metaphor.)

 

[Bill of Rights]

Dang it's hard to keep up with this thread.



I think that THIS ^^^^ Is the real reason behind THIS vvvv



Apparently riots are good business for 24hour news channels who normally have cellar ratings. Whodda thunk?



What bothers me is that these people can't bring their imaginations to ponder the "what ifs", namely, what if Michael Brown was a bully and a thug, who just robbed a convenience store, and then escalated violence against a police officer to the point where the officer had to use deadly force to protect his own life?

But no, try to wrench contrived righteous indignation from people who already believe they're victims, and you'll be the bad guy. That kind of "oppression" is just too savory to let go to waste.

And this is a major part of it as well. That victim mentality has been promoted for generations, not only in the Black community, by the aforementioned knot-heads who call themselves "reverend", but even in the Jewish community in which I grew up.
News flash: Not everything that happens to you as a result of actions of a perceived member of another (rival, at least in your mind) group is because of the groups you see acting.

A _____ man and a _____ woman.

Fill in as you wish... color, criminal/LEO, wealth, height, sexuality, weight, religion, or even leaving the blanks blank... that's one that militant feminists and misogynists use all the time, that all their woes are put on them by the other gender. For that matter, the filled-in words could as easily be both men or both women, as long as there is some difference on which they can seize.

Christians think they're being oppressed by Muslims who claim they're oppressed by Jews who feel oppressed by Christians.... Blacks by Whites by Hispanics by Whites by Blacks.... Poor by rich by middle class by rich by poor....

Are any of them true? Only if you already believe you're a victim of someone... or, in other words, no. Only in your mind.

Prejudice sucks.

 

[HoughMade]

I am OK with the body cameras, depending on the policy that is driving them. If they are going to be actively recording my entire 8.5 hour shift then I say no way, absolutely not. If they are going to be recording only citizen interactions, I am OK with that. I don't need or want the department storing footage of me taking a dump, getting some Starbucks, pumping gas etc.....

On the taxpayer dime? I want maximum bang for my JBT buck! No personal errands! Just say no to No. 2.

 

[VUPDblue]

But I do get thirsty.... And I do like coffee.... You don't want a dehydrated JBT rollin' around out there do ya? Huh?

 

[churchmouse]

But I do get thirsty.... And I do like coffee.... You don't want a dehydrated JBT rollin' around out there do ya? Huh?

Nope.....I want a fully caffeinated poop free JBT on my hood watch......yeah buddy.

 

[Vigilant]

But I do get thirsty.... And I do like coffee.... You don't want a dehydrated JBT rollin' around out there do ya? Huh?

You should bring water from home, coffee will dehydrate you faster, but still water from home! You, being paid by me, and others, should be fiscally responsible with our money! So, poop on your time, bring food and drink from home, and only consume it at specified break times. Obviously the break times are arbitrary, since I expect you to respond to calls for service, whether or not you are done eating or drinking!

 

[Vigilant]

Oh and back to pooping at home, your Jack Boots are easier to wield when you're not full of sh..!

 

[findingZzero]

Dang it's hard to keep up with this thread.



What bothers me is that these people can't bring their imaginations to ponder the "what ifs", namely, what if Michael Brown was a bully and a thug, who just robbed a convenience store, and then escalated violence against a police officer to the point where the officer had to use deadly force to protect his own life?

But no, try to wrench contrived righteous indignation from people who already believe they're victims, and you'll be the bad guy. That kind of "oppression" is just too savory to let go to waste.

Michael Brown may have murdered 2 nuns and a baby in the hour preceding his demise (though I think it was a lesser crime in reality). And he should go to the chair (table?) for that, but what happened on the street between him and Wilson, should decide if he needed to be killed on the spot.
As far as the CNN headline adding 'an unarmed black teen,' well that is the story, isn't it.

 

[churchmouse]

Michael Brown may have murdered 2 nuns and a baby in the hour preceding his demise (though I think it was a lesser crime in reality). And he should go to the chair (table?) for that, but what happened on the street between him and Wilson, should decide if he needed to be killed on the spot.
As far as the CNN headline adding 'an unarmed black teen,' well that is the story, isn't it.

No. It is a line from a much longer and more involved story. All the facts please.
Sound bite one line intro are fueling a fire that needs to be put out.

 

[Que]

I have 17 law wnforcement officers in my family (Black and White). They serve in the city or surrounding suburbs of Chicago, Louisville, and Atlanta. Tomorrow afternoon many of us will gather for Thanksgiving and this discussion will surely come up. Overwhelmingly and without a doubt, the first part of the conversation will end with EVERYONE agreeing that Michael Brown made a life-ending decision and what happened was his own fault. We will then talk about personal responsibility and our children will hear the elders discuss expectations as they conduct themselves in public.

Now, after that discussion ends, we will then hear about and discuss the huge disparities in the treatment of people of color compared to majority white citizens, when dealing with police officers. We will talk about how some receive a slap on the wrist while others are carted to jail for similar offenses. There are videos and stories all over the Internet showing similar occurrences and some are even posted on this very forum, but there is no discussion, no outrage, and no anger. If we look at the number of incidents like the Brown case and compare them to those in which officer abuse is found, one could possibly wonder why there aren't more riots; although we all agree riots are not a solution, regardless what Dr. King said on the issue. So, although I am among those who can see that Brown's death was his own fault and the grand jury made the right decision, today is a new day.

The discussion about Brown will go on for a while. The press is getting what they want. The looters are getting what they want. Detractors and supporters are getting what they want. I see of these in the same light: blood-thirsty and wanting to see "them" pay for their hurt, fear, and anger. Yep, you can naturally sense the pain and fear all sides are feeling, just by the words they post on the Internet. The question is, what exactly is the currency to pay off this debt? Who knows. But, until we can all stop pointing at "them", nothing will change... that is, for those of us who truly want to see a change.

 

[churchmouse]

I have 17 law wnforcement officers in my family (Black and White). They serve in the city or surrounding suburbs of Chicago, Louisville, and Atlanta. Tomorrow afternoon many of us will gather for Thanksgiving and this discussion will surely come up. Overwhelmingly and without a doubt, the first part of the conversation will end with EVERYONE agreeing that Michael Brown made a life-ending decision and what happened was his own fault. We will then talk about personal responsibility and our children will hear the elders discuss expectations as they conduct themselves in public.

Now, after that discussion ends, we will then hear about and discuss the huge disparities in the treatment of people of color compared to majority white citizens, when dealing with police officers. We will talk about how some receive a slap on the wrist while others are carted to jail for similar offenses. There are videos and stories all over the Internet showing similar occurrences and some are even posted on this very forum, but there is no discussion, no outrage, and no anger. If we look at the number of incidents like the Brown case and compare them to those in which officer abuse is found, one could possibly wonder why there aren't more riots; although we all agree riots are not a solution, regardless what Dr. King said on the issue. So, although I am among those who can see that Brown's death was his own fault and the grand jury made the right decision, today is a new day.

The discussion about Brown will go on for a while. The press is getting what they want. The looters are getting what they want. Detractors and supporters are getting what they want. I see of these in the same light: blood-thirsty and wanting to see "them" pay for their hurt, fear, and anger. Yep, you can naturally sense the pain and fear all sides are feeling, just by the words they post on the Internet. The question is, what exactly is the currency to pay off this debt? Who knows. But, until we can all stop pointing at "them", nothing will change... that is, for those of us who truly want to see a change.

My greatest wish in this life is to see this madness end. I have skin in this game.
I do not have the answers but I do know what brought us to this point.
I am also very disappointed in Obama and Holder. They have not done anything to put these fires out. No 2 people have ever been in such influential positions to narrow the divide as those 2 yet they have only fanned the flames. This is of course OMHO as I see the world.

 

[chipbennett]

Michael Brown may have murdered 2 nuns and a baby in the hour preceding his demise (though I think it was a lesser crime in reality). And he should go to the chair (table?) for that, but what happened on the street between him and Wilson, should decide if he needed to be killed on the spot.

Not necessarily. While this was an open-and-shut case of self-defense, Wilson, as an LEO, would be fully within statutory authority to shoot Brown as a fleeing felon, if he reasonably believed that Brown represented an imminent danger to Wilson or others. That Brown committed a strong-arm robbery and assaulted a police officer (while attempting to get his gun - attempted murder, that) within a span of 10 minutes does lead to a reasonable conclusion that Brown was such an imminent threat.

As far as the CNN headline adding 'an unarmed black teen,' well that is the story, isn't it.

No. For two reasons:

1. There is no statutory requirement for an assailant to be armed in any particular manner before availing oneself of the use of deadly force in self-defense. (Brown knew the danger he posed even unarmed: "My fists my ammunition.")
2. The moment Brown attempted to get Wilson's firearm, his status changed from "unarmed" to "potentially armed". Every police officer, and every CCW holder has this principle of retention drilled into them: once in a physical struggle, it's not my gun, and it's not your gun; it's simply THE gun.

 

[Que]

My greatest wish in this life is to see this madness end. I have skin in this game.
I do not have the answers but I do know what brought us to this point.
I am also very disappointed in Obama and Holder. They have not done anything to put these fires out. No 2 people have ever been in such influential positions to narrow the divide as those 2 yet they have only fanned the flames. This is of course OMHO as I see the world.

Obama and Holder did not bring us to this point and they cannot get us out. Just as Brown made a personal decision, we all need to hold ourselves accountable for the part we play. We can say that Holder and Obama have divided us, but what have our discussions on INGO done to bring us together? This is the realm of our influence and I've not seen words of healing and reconciliation. I've mostly seen the opposite.

 

[Birds Away]

I have 17 law wnforcement officers in my family (Black and White). They serve in the city or surrounding suburbs of Chicago, Louisville, and Atlanta. Tomorrow afternoon many of us will gather for Thanksgiving and this discussion will surely come up. Overwhelmingly and without a doubt, the first part of the conversation will end with EVERYONE agreeing that Michael Brown made a life-ending decision and what happened was his own fault. We will then talk about personal responsibility and our children will hear the elders discuss expectations as they conduct themselves in public.

Now, after that discussion ends, we will then hear about and discuss the huge disparities in the treatment of people of color compared to majority white citizens, when dealing with police officers. We will talk about how some receive a slap on the wrist while others are carted to jail for similar offenses. There are videos and stories all over the Internet showing similar occurrences and some are even posted on this very forum, but there is no discussion, no outrage, and no anger. If we look at the number of incidents like the Brown case and compare them to those in which officer abuse is found, one could possibly wonder why there aren't more riots; although we all agree riots are not a solution, regardless what Dr. King said on the issue. So, although I am among those who can see that Brown's death was his own fault and the grand jury made the right decision, today is a new day.

The discussion about Brown will go on for a while. The press is getting what they want. The looters are getting what they want. Detractors and supporters are getting what they want. I see of these in the same light: blood-thirsty and wanting to see "them" pay for their hurt, fear, and anger. Yep, you can naturally sense the pain and fear all sides are feeling, just by the words they post on the Internet. The question is, what exactly is the currency to pay off this debt? Who knows. But, until we can all stop pointing at "them", nothing will change... that is, for those of us who truly want to see a change.

Unless and until there can be an open and honest discussion about all the factors that play into these tragedies, nothing will ever change. Different sides are only willing to discuss part of the issues. Both sides love to hang labels that stifle opinion or undermine credibility. But, since there is a lot of money and political currency involved, this will never happen.

 

[Que]

Unless and until there can be an open and honest discussion about all the factors that play into these tragedies, nothing will ever change. Different sides are only willing to discuss part of the issues. Both sides love to hang labels that stifle opinion or undermine credibility. But, since there is a lot of money and political currency involved, this will never happen.

No, it can happen! You have identified our MAIN problem as a country. There needs to be open and honest discussion. Not among the educated elite and wealthy benefactors, but among everyday working people, who are the ones who deal with this madness on a daily basis. I believe this can happen! It will be painful, but it is the only cure for our sickness.

 

[HoughMade]

No, it can happen! You have identified our MAIN problem as a country. There needs to be open and honest discussion. Not among the educated elite and wealthy benefactors, but among everyday working people, who are the ones who deal with this madness on a daily basis. I believe this can happen! It will be painful, but it is the only cure for our sickness.

Are we ready for an open and honest discussion? I am perfectly willing to admit that racism exists. I am perfectly willing to admit that black youth get treated differently, worse, than white youth in many situations.

Are we willing to discuss that we have a real "chicken and egg", or more appropriately "Log and speck" problem with why black youth, in many areas, are treated differently? Sometimes it's racism. Sometimes it's experience.

I am very willing to have an open and honest dialogue. However, this open and honest dialogue includes not only racism, institutional and personal, but why many black communities suffer from crime at the hands of members of their own community...overwhelmingly and disproportionately.

I'm just afraid that many people, regardless of race, are willing only to talk openly and honestly about what they perceive are the faults of others.

Log and speck.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]