The (Current year) General Political/Salma Hayek discussion Thread Part V

[T.Lex]

So, basically: "One man's death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"?

Not really. At least, I'm not following that logic.

More like, "Win at all costs."

 

[nonobaddog]

It's about the campaign.

That strategy worked by taking statistically minuscule examples of illegal immigrant violence and leveraging that into a full blown anti-immigration election winner.

Divide and conquer has been a legitimate strategy for thousands of years.

Kind of like taking a minuscule example of police violence and leveraging it into a full blown anti-police nationwide riot.

 

[T.Lex]

Kind of like taking a minuscule example of police violence and leveraging it into a full blown anti-police nationwide riot.

Yes, very much like that.

Both tap into - or assume - racial identity divisions.

 

[Tombs]

What are you using for your wargaming, a 12d and saving throws?

We don't have the resources, the allies, nor the national will to do that. Maybe this is more for the WWIII thread, but by the time China collapsed, we'd have lost thousands of our military, billions in materiel, and gained nothing.

Do you think I'm advocating complete leveling of China? No.

Just a hard enough hit to humiliate them on the world stage, after a long propaganda campaign that will have our allies called out for their hypocrisy and generate global demand for China to face repercussions.

Such as taking out their death camps. Promising autonomy to Hong Kong, and formally recognizing Taiwan as a nation.

 

[T.Lex]

Do you think I'm advocating complete leveling of China? No.

I thought you were advocating what you posted: a "formal" invasion of mainland China.

Which is different than....

Just a hard enough hit to humiliate them on the world stage, after a long propaganda campaign that will have our allies called out for their hypocrisy and generate global demand for China to face repercussions.

Which is no easy task, since China has financed a great many projects across the world. Meanwhile, we would be subjected to a similar propaganda campaign.

Ultimately, that sets the stage for a WWI tangle of treaties and alliances.

Such as taking out their death camps. Promising autonomy to Hong Kong, and formally recognizing Taiwan as a nation.

How do ANY of those serve our interests? Taiwan's tenuous independence (because as soon as we leave, China would start eyeing that prize again) is worth what cost to our national fisc and military manpower?

Any boots-on-the-ground scenario against China (which necessarily means no nukes... from us) would be incredibly costly, in lives and materiel.

 

[two70]

Not really. At least, I'm not following that logic.

More like, "Win at all costs."

You were downplaying the tragedy of illegal alien violence by claiming it was statistically insignificant. You actually took Stalin's comment a step farther by not only degrading tragedy to a statistic but also minimizing the statistic.

 

[T.Lex]

You were downplaying the tragedy of illegal alien violence by claiming it was statistically insignificant. You actually took Stalin's comment a step farther by not only degrading tragedy to a statistic but also minimizing the statistic.

Careful, gunowner, that's a double-edged sword you're wielding there.

 

[jamil]

Prez retweeting two videos of black-on-white violence.

His commentary is little more than "hey look at this."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1275256115710885889
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1275255772709031936

If the media wanted to go with "Trump fanning racial hatred in America"... would you have a hard time disagreeing?

Though I'm sure his goal is just to get people to react, which will bring more attention to the videos. At least it wasn't the @POTUS account...

Eh, I think it's more that he's trying to make a statement counter to the narrative that all the violence is white on black and that's evidence of America's deeply racist people and institutions. It's not what the POTUS should do. At least not in that way. I'd like to see Trump do some things that tend to bring people together. He can't bring everyone together. Certainly not the radicals on either side. But the sane middle he could bring together more than they are now.

And I honestly do not think that just a white person alone can rebut the narrative now, POTUS or otherwise. No one's going to accept that that needs to accept it. Assertions are being made from BLM that aren't true. I think it has to be the sane black and white voices together that rebut this. Trump has a platform for that. He's not using it in a way that will calm the unrest.

 

[T.Lex]

Trump has a platform for that. He's not using it in a way that will calm the unrest.

No real surprise there, though, right?

 

[jamil]

It's about the campaign.

That strategy worked by taking statistically minuscule examples of illegal immigrant violence and leveraging that into a full blown anti-immigration election winner.

Divide and conquer has been a legitimate strategy for thousands of years.

People were anti-migration way before Trump came along. And Trump isn't the one who divided us. It's not one person. It's divergent ideologies growing past each other to a point where they can't even understand each other anymore. Maybe Trump is doing strategy. I kinda don't give him all that much credit.

 

[jamil]

No real surprise there, though, right?

Well, no. But your reply seems insufficiently universal. Overly one-sided. It's not like the other side is all that careful for unity. I'm not all that certain that unity is possible right now. And Tomb's idea I don't think will work. You'll get all the Trumpers and maybe some moderates on board with going to war with China, many of the left leaning moderates opposing it. And the crazy moonbats siding with China to try to turn the USA into a communist utopia.

 

[T.Lex]

People were anti-migration way before Trump came along. And Trump isn't the one who divided us. It's not one person. It's divergent ideologies growing past each other to a point where they can't even understand each other anymore. Maybe Trump is doing strategy. I kinda don't give him all that much credit.

Well, no. But your reply seems insufficiently universal. Overly one-sided. It's not like the other side is all that careful for unity. I'm not all that certain that unity is possible right now.

Well, you haven't gotten to the part about me agreeing that BLM serving the Dems' interests.

GPIehsfhugsiunggbggnns's post was specific to Trump, so my response was, too.

I'm certainly not putting the liberals on the side of unity, particularly not now. Probably not at all since JFK.

 

[nonobaddog]

Well, you haven't gotten to the part about me agreeing that BLM serving the Dems' interests.

Wow, what a concession Mr obvious.

 

[Tombs]

I thought you were advocating what you posted: a "formal" invasion of mainland China.

Which is different than....


Which is no easy task, since China has financed a great many projects across the world. Meanwhile, we would be subjected to a similar propaganda campaign.

Ultimately, that sets the stage for a WWI tangle of treaties and alliances.



How do ANY of those serve our interests? Taiwan's tenuous independence (because as soon as we leave, China would start eyeing that prize again) is worth what cost to our national fisc and military manpower?

Any boots-on-the-ground scenario against China (which necessarily means no nukes... from us) would be incredibly costly, in lives and materiel.

How does it serve our interests? It'd stop our allies from stabbing us in the back and fawning over how great China is. Losing Europe as an ally would be a catastrophic blow to our international credibility, and a tremendous blow to our economy. Meanwhile it props up China on the world stage and establishes a basis for them to eclipse us.
Not only that, but it provides encouragement for unity in the country, which we desperately need right now. All that hatred can be directed away from fellow Americans onto a threat in a far away land.

And propping up Taiwan serves our interests because it causes companies to favor opening a factory there rather than China. And Taiwan isn't a tinpot fascist dictatorship like China, they're a time capsule showing what China would have been if it wasn't for the Maoist revolution.

 

[nonobaddog]

How does it serve our interests? It'd stop our allies from stabbing us in the back and fawning over how great China is. Losing Europe as an ally would be a catastrophic blow to our international credibility, and a tremendous blow to our economy. Meanwhile it props up China on the world stage and establishes a basis for them to eclipse us.
Not only that, but it provides encouragement for unity in the country, which we desperately need right now. All that hatred can be directed away from fellow Americans onto a threat in a far away land.

And propping up Taiwan serves our interests because it causes companies to favor opening a factory there rather than China. And Taiwan isn't a tinpot fascist dictatorship like China, they're a time capsule showing what China would have been if it wasn't for the Maoist revolution.

That is a good point, we should probably be thankful for chinese communism. If they weren't communist they probably would have taken over the world by now and we would be typing this stuff in mandarin.

 

[Tombs]

That is a good point, we should probably be thankful for chinese communism. If they weren't communist they probably would have taken over the world by now and we would be typing this stuff in mandarin.

I could write an essay on why the CCP calling themselves communist is probably one of the most hilarious inaccuracies in global history. It actually puts North Korea's "People's democratic republic" wording to shame, in how distant it is from what it implies.

China is weaponized government manipulated capitalism. It is capitalism that is artificially fertilized with government assistance to ensure trade agreements, zoning, and resource supply, with very little taxation, and a boatload of special favors given to those that grow the economy the fastest.

Their entire structure is indebting themselves up to their eyeballs, but creating enough economic growth from that debt to avoid collapsing. If anything throws a wrench in the works, the entire country would default and fold up in short order, as they have no margin for error.

If you've ever heard of the paperclip factory AI, that is exactly what China is and why it is such a terrifying force.
[video=youtube;3mk7NVFz_88]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mk7NVFz_88[/video]

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I know it's just a silly political compass site, and the metrics could be way off... but I do enjoy the fact that I don't fit in to the "vocal crowd" here... and yet:

 

[BugI02]

Looked up what I assume you used. I gave it an honest try, results not what I expected. Hard to believe you're ostensibly more authoritarian than I am. AFAIC questions could be more nuanced

View attachment 88279

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Yeah it definitely simplifies it. There was one during the 2016 elections that had some really deep, nuanced answers... tons of questions... and at the end it showed you your % match with all the candidates and whatnot. Was posted around here, they've probably expanded on it by now. It had simple answer options, but then you could choose to expand the answers into a bunch of more detailed responses.

But now we know you're a radical extremist centrist.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I'm a little more Libertarian and a little more Right leaning than you are Bug.