The Boy Scouts, Hardcore or Hippies?

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  • sadclownwp

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 6, 2010
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    NWI
    I hope this doesn't sound like a rant, but I would like to hear what some of you guys have to say about the Boy Scouts and see if your opinions are the same as mine. I was the Assistant Scoutmaster for a Troop for a year, and I couldn't take it anymore. I had to get out, to much BS. I'm pretty sure that BSA no longer stands for Boy Scouts of America and now stands for Baby Sitters Association. What happened, when i was in the scouts it was hardcore, and now, its just so not. It seems the Boy Scouts has become a mere shadow of its once former glory. And it all starts with...

    THE PARENTS
    What kind of parents are people(in general) becoming. How dare you drop your kid off at the meetings and then patronize me when it didn't cover the perticular merit badge your son has been wanting to do. Here is an idea, Spend some time with your own child and raise him into a man yourself, do not depend solely on the Boy Scouts to do this for you. I may not be part of the national office, but I don't think the Boy Scouts are there to raise your young men.
    And please parents know that if a Scoutmaster yells at your child, its for a good reason. No scoutmaster would ever yell at a boy who didn't at least in part deserve it. If a Scoutmaster yells at your son for having his knife blade come within 3 inches of of another scouts head, and then takes a corner from his chip. Do not come to the next meeting telling anyone they should not have done that or saying it could have been handled differently, or the Scoutmaster could have pulled him aside later privately so as not to embarass him.
    And if your son is in charge of making the nights campfire for dinner to be prepared on, and he can't do it within 2 hours with a flint and steel, please parents do not make the mistake of thinking its not your sons fault. There is not a Scoutmaster alive who has not spent hours showing your son how to build and start a fire from flint and steel repeatedly. It is not the Scoutmasters fault that when he asks "Are there any questions, did everyone understand how to do that, I would love to show you again," your son said yes i understand it and i could repeat it. Its also not the Scoutmasters fault that he didn't practice starting a fire at home like he should have, under your supervison, which you prolly never gave him.
    I could go on and on with this. but now for the next reason, and god help you if you get a...

    Liberal Person In Charge.
    I am not calling out anyone from council, this is more of the adults that are on committies or in charge at all. But I must question why you would ever get involved in a troop if all you are gonna do is complain. If you think that campouts are getting to expensive, than organize a fund raiser. Do Not Depend on anyone doing this for you. Also don't take crap from parents about their scouts not being able to make the cookout after 4 weeks of advanced notice and then pass that crap along to me. Here is an idea, if the scout doesn't participate in the fund raiser, he shouldn't get any of the benifits from it either. To many other scouts bust their butts on fundraisers to see a scout that didn't participate get the benifits from it, what is that teaching our young men today?
    And to the people on the Boards of Review, do not be afraid to tell a lazy scout that they have not earned rank because they have performed to usatisfactory levels. What you are doing by passing them along is no different that school children who can't read being passed along. Stop It. Again what is this showing the boys, its showing them they can half ass things and still get moved along. There is a reason that its called Earning rank not being Given rank. But they can't get to there Boards of Review without...

    A Weak Minded Scoutmaster. This is not what i was, i was an Assistant Scoutmaster. But weak minded scoutmasters would rather be loved by all than to uphold the boy scout rules and traditions. This is what I really couldn't take. Dispite many of my times contacting the head of council about how to handle things and what to do, the Scoutmaster would do his own thing. he would give scoutmaster conferences before the rank time had been acheived, he would initial for the community service parts of rank when no community service had been given. And he would bend to the will of parents all the time. and he would make the Scout Law mean nothing. It was more of a popularity contest with him, and making the boys like scouts at all costs. Not every young man has what it takes to be a boy scout, there are rules and the Scout law,
    A Scout is
    trustworthy,
    loyal,
    helpful,
    friendly,
    courteous,
    kind,
    obedient,
    cheerful,
    thrifty,
    brave,
    clean, and
    reverent.

    And a scout is either all of these things or not a boy scout.
    And the only reason that i didn't report any of this to council is that the scoutmaster is my best friend, i just didn't realize how much of a hippy he was.

    I wonder if the Boy Scouts will ever turn back into the Organization it once was. And to a better point, how will the BSA get hardcore enough to make it seem like a cool organization again. Lets face it, it looses half its members in the middle school to high school transition. My thoughts on this, Add more Gun merit badges, that always keeps the kids attention.
     
    Rating - 100%
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    Nov 19, 2009
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    I was raised in the Scouts. I stopped at Life Scout when I turned 16 and started driving. I was a member of Troop #41 in Merrillville. I saw the tide changing then and i'm sure that scouting is completely different from what I knew as a teenager. Shame. We had some really great times.
     

    r3126

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    Dec 3, 2008
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    Rep'ed. Well stated! Change the words just a bit and it could apply to coaching, 4H, scouts, or any other volunteer effort. Parenting has become too much of a bother for to many of our society - just farm the kids out, let others do what the parent is responsible for.
     

    adh72

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    Nov 21, 2008
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    Got my Eagle in 2004 with Troop 333. Saw a lot of what you did in my troop but I also saw different troops that were ran like a military unit. I think a lot of it depends on what troop and area you are in.
     

    beararms1776

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    Going by what you describe, I don't recall scouts ever being this way either when I was younger. Younger adults are bringing children into the world that they themselves aren't even out of their childish stages.
    You have a kid, you become a man and take care of the responsibility. This is just my opinion, as this is how I seen and my parents were. But hey, to each his own. Not much you can do about it.
     

    jsgolfman

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    Oct 20, 2008
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    It's not just scouts, it's the culture in general. My pet peeve is parents who sign their children up for sports teams and drop the child off and leave. I have several sisues with that:
    1. What if something were to happen to your child?
    2. What kind of message does that send to your child, that you don't care enough to hang around and watch?
    3. Why did you have children if it's too much trouble to spend a little time with them in an activity that , hopefully, they do because they enjoy it?
     

    dross

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    I ran a summer tennis program for a few hundred kids, ages 3 to 18. This was a full time job for that summer. It paid very well, but it wasn't worth it because of the parents. The parents made the job a living hell. I'd give a drill to seven to nine year old girls, maybe 10 in a class. I once had a parent approach me and say, "Do you realize you only let my daughter hit 35 balls and the other girls hit an average of 45?"

    Another time one of the parents timed how many minutes the kids spent picking up balls and reported that to me.

    Also, I was shocked at how the 13 year old girls dressed. My daughter will have to smuggle clothes like that out of the house, 'cause she aint' gettin' out dressed like that.

    That said, I don't know that parenting has changed all that much. There's always been good parents and bad parents. In some ways the bad parents were worse when I was a kid.
     

    Blackhawk2001

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    (Snipped)


    That said, I don't know that parenting has changed all that much. There's always been good parents and bad parents. In some ways the bad parents were worse when I was a kid.

    One aspect that seems to have changed is that people in general have little courtesy for each other. Perhaps it's the Spockian notion that "spare the rod and spoil the child" was outmoded and that little Johnny or Susie (especially Johhny!) would learn to be good if we only reached out to them...The outgrowth of that was the notion that spanking a child was "abuse". Now we have a generation of parents who were raised to believe that they couldn't use a tried and true method of curbing bad behavior.

    Of course, a gradual dimunition of the value of the human life in our culture has also caused a predisposition in some of our population to go beyond "spanking" to beatings and breaking bones, etc. which is abusive. That tends to confuse the whole "behavioral conditioning" paradigm.

    All I can say is that when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s my parents and neighbors demanded (and got-mostly) respect from their juniors. If I screwed up enough to get in trouble with one of my neighbors, I could count on getting a "whippin' " when I got home.

    When I was in sports, we had the occasional intrusive parent (usually in baseball) who liked to yell at his kid, or ***** loudly about the ump's calls, but they didn't usually try to tell the coach/manager how to do his job.
    I don't do sports much anymore, but I enjoy watching my son teach martial arts. He doesn't get any grief from meddlesome parents...
     

    techamber

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    A bit harsh of a description, but I have to somewhat agree. Boy scouts are a lot less strict in their functions and guidelines now and it sort of destroys the entire point.
     

    sadclownwp

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    the truth is sometimes harsh. and i think the rules are more strict that ever, hell there are even weight requirements now. its that the traditions of excellence of the boy scouts is gone. the boys don't seem to have the same fire inside them that me and my friends had when i was a scout.
     

    dross

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    One aspect that seems to have changed is that people in general have little courtesy for each other. Perhaps it's the Spockian notion that "spare the rod and spoil the child" was outmoded and that little Johnny or Susie (especially Johhny!) would learn to be good if we only reached out to them...The outgrowth of that was the notion that spanking a child was "abuse". Now we have a generation of parents who were raised to believe that they couldn't use a tried and true method of curbing bad behavior.

    I don't believe in spanking or striking a child, ever. I don't necessarily think it's always abuse, but I do think it's wrong. (Let the flames begin.) I think you can raise a great child in a loving environment and also use corporal punishment. I just don't think it's necessary, and I don't like the message it sends.

    I have not and will not ever strike my daughter. She's 4, we made it through the terrible twos with me never once having the urge to spank. She's not a perfect child, she does things for which I've seen others spank. She HATES to get in trouble and just the threat of a time out puts terror in her heart. We're talking about two minutes sitting on the stairs. She gets a time out maybe once every two weeks. If I change my face from its usual fond look at her to a scowl I can reduce her to instant tears.

    I've got lots of friends and family who don't spank and their kids have grown up to be highly productive.

    And, I came from a family where the rod (belt) was the number one punishment from early years to about 12.
     

    HICKMAN

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    I pulled my boys out of the scouts a few years ago, having experienced the same things.

    You will find real troops here and there, but not nearly like it used to be.

    Buying a subscription to Dave Canterbury's site and will have them learned from Dave's Pathfinder program.
     

    miguel

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    This is a depressing thread.

    I'm participating as a Cub Scout leader this year for the first time and will do my best to do my duty to help form fine, honorable young men.

    If not me, who? If not now, when?

    Wish me luck, fellas!
     

    Woodsman

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    I'll admit it, its been a long time since I had anything to do with Scouting but man, if this is what the Soy Scouts have been reduced to someone should have their a$$ handed to them on a platter. My dad was our Scout Master and he was a long time NG officer. If you think we didn't have to toe the line and pay attention while proving we could do some specific task I'm here to tell you it could be a long weekend...
     

    sadclownwp

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    Its not what the Boy Scouts have been reduced to, it just takes everyone in its leadership to stand up to the parents and say, "This is a private organization, you don't have to be here. This is how things go, take it or leave it, but don't punish your son cause you are a hippy." and that has to be the attitude of every adult leader there. One of the greatest moments in my life is when we took the Troop to Pokagan State Part in the winter and it didn't even get above 10 degrees. The scouts pitched there tents at 9:30 pm and it was only 2 degrees. But after 4 days and no one died or got sick, i was proud of them and myself. A little disgouraged not a single one of them could make a fire, and only one of them brought emergacy matches, but proud none the less. Right up until we got back home and one of the parents said we should have brought the boys home if it was that cold. retarded parents, did you really just let your child go on a camping trip and not check yourself to see what the weather was gonna be like?

    and another huge problem, every parent thinks their kid is hot ***t in a champagne glass, when really for the most part the average kid is cold diarrhea in a Dixie Cup. I like when parents think there kid is the greatest, it shows they care, but at least make sure your kid really is the best or at least good at something. And when the parents lie to you, and say there kid can do things, and really he can't, oh that makes any Scoutmaster angry, cause then you assign him jobs that really he doesn't know how to do.
     

    Woodsman

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    I would agree, the parents have a lot of impact on this too. A lot of what you describe is either the parents being too cuddly with little Johnny or having no idea of what Scouts do.

    Camping in cold weather and snow can suck big time, but once you learn how to handle it it's not too bad.

    Most parents don't do enough to teach their kids how to be confident. Too much coddling is a fine way to to make them useless in camp. On the other hand though, there is nothing better than seeing the light come on for a young 'un when he learns how to do it for himself. Sort of like getting a bow drill to work! There's one for you.

    One thing I would ask though is; have you taught the kids to do the stuff you are asking them to do, or are you asking the parents if their kids can do those tasks? That's two different topics.
     

    sadclownwp

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    hours and hours, days of time, have been spent teaching the kids to do everything i would expect of them. and at the end of every meeting i told them to go home an practice what they learned, my troop is in a farming community, so there is no excuse to not practice what they learned. but the parents never make them practice.
     
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