SWAT Team invades home and kills dog for a joint.

[lashicoN]

...Government cannot grant me any freedom. Freedom is a negative--a lack of restraint. Nobody can grant you a lack of something.

I can grant you a lack of money, if I steal it from you.

Government can grant you a lack of freedom, if they take it from you.

When we're in the boat we are currently in, it doesn't matter where freedom comes from. If freedom is granted (by not being taken away) by governments or if freedom flows naturally from human beings simply existing. Right now it doesn't matter where they come from, because all of our rights are being suppressed by our government.

Let's get back our rights, start exercising them fully. Then we can have the chat about where rights come from. Do you think farmers care where rain comes from if all of their crops are drying up and dying off?

 

[sporty_live]

not every one can be sport_live Oakley

BWAHAHAHA, good one!

 

[lashicoN]

...If you want to raise your kids in a house that you use drugs in, then I hope you get arrested and taken out of the pic before the kid is old enough to figure out what a failure his/her dad is in life. I will be the guy in the Big Brother program that spends time with them every two weeks.

I think the biggest problem here is that you imagine marijuana to be MUCH worse than it actually is in real life. It just makes you laugh, man. It's like Christmas mixed with a comedy show. Warm feelings and many laughs.

 

[Expat]

It appears you failed natural law 101.

The Constitution of the United States, unamended, didn't include any substantive rights protection at all. And when the framers were debating adding a bill of rights, they feared doing so because they feared precisely what you think--that society would come to assume that ONLY the codified rights mattered, and that government would be free to intervene in the lives of individuals in any manner other than those specifically prohibited. Put another way, they didn't think there'd be any reason for a Bill of Rights, because they didn't believe the government would have any power other than those which were given to it specifically in the Constitution, and that including a Bill of Rights might give the false impression that government had power that was never granted to it.

Rights do not come from government. They pre-date government and are based on the natural rights of every human being.

Government cannot grant me any freedom. Freedom is a negative--a lack of restraint. Nobody can grant you a lack of something.

Essentially correct. But you like many on here don't want to admit to what they actually believed.

From the DOI:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Our rights come to us by God.

 

[lashicoN]

Essentially correct. But you like many on here don't want to admit to what they actually believed.

From the DOI:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Our rights come to us by God.

Was he confused when he took away the entire planet's "God-given right" to life when he flooded the Earth?

 

[Expat]

Was he confused when he took away the entire planet's "God-given right" to life when he flooded the Earth?

So you reject the Founders' position that our rights come form Nature's God? I guess we will fall back on Nietzsche then.

 

[lashicoN]

So you reject the Founders' position that our rights come form Nature's God? I guess we will fall back on Nietzsche then.

I was just kidding. I'm saying I don't know where rights come from, probably just our minds, since we are far smarter than any other life form we've ever come into contact with. But just because they are formed in our minds, doesn't make them any less real.

It doesn't matter to me, and it shouldn't matter to anyone else if you believe that God grants us our rights or if we grant them to ourselves. What does matter is that you believe we have rights, many rights, and that we should be able to exercise those rights. The people running this country (for the last many years) don't believe we have rights. We are a revenue source for them, nothing more.

 

[Prometheus]

easy solution to that one, don't violate traffic laws. Sorry but I have no pity for those who break the law.

I don't even know where to begin with something so idiotic.

There are over 1,000 traffic laws you (as a private driver, not even counting commercially) could violate every time you leave your driveway.

There are hundreds of thousands of laws in this county, most of which are things you probably don't even know is illegal.

If you drive a car, you are a "law breaker". It is impossible to operate a motor vehicle in the State of Indiana without breaking a myriad of laws.

I hope you get what you are advocating, you criminal!

 

[Roadie]

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." Patrick Henry

“The few cases wherein these things (proposed Bill of Rights) may do
evil, cannot be weighed against the multitude where the want of them
will do evil…I hope therefore a bill of rights will be formed to guard
the people against the federal government…” Thomas Jefferson

Whether you believe they are natural rights, or God given rights, it really doesn't matter in regards in the context of what the Founding Fathers believed when they wrote the Constitution.

The Bill of Rights enumerates the rights the Father's believed were pre-existing.

If it GAVE us rights, it would have said things like:

"The People shall have the right to assemble, and of free speech."

Instead it words it:

"Congress shall make no law... right to assemble...abridging free speech..." etc

Subtle, but very important, difference...

 

[MinuteMan47]

This was the video I posted in the "War on Drugs" thread, and it is the main reason I started this thread...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WcuYafh1ek&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Government Admits they Deal Heroin, Terrorize Families for Pot[/ame]

 

[lashicoN]

This was the video I posted in the "War on Drugs" thread, and it is the main reason I started this thread...

YouTube - Government Admits they Deal Heroin, Terrorize Families for Pot

Thanks for re-posting it. Insane video, guys. You should check it out. I was going to comment on it after you sent me the message, but then I saw this thread and got all distracted again.

 

[serpicostraight]

we are not brothers, you think its ok to do some illegal things.

You are the part of the problem, not the solution.

are these people born like this or trained to be subjects?

 

[Expat]

I think the point IndyMonkey is making is that if you are going to be involved in drugs or other illegal activities you are increasing the odds that bad things are going to happen to you. You should consider this when deciding how you will lead your life.

 

[IndyMonkey]

are these people born like this or trained to be subjects?

I am the farthest thing from a sheep.

I know what it takes to play the game to get by in the society that we have been dealt by the generations before us to live in.

Smoking pot and selling gets you on the radar. Bringing that stuff into your house with your kids makes you a coward and an idiot.

 

[jbombelli]

Your "rights" are not granted by God. Nor are they granted by men, the Constitution, or the government.

Rights are held or taken only by men.

You have the rights and freedoms you take and hold for yourself, nothing more.


As far as being demonized for a willingness to break some laws?

"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all.""

--Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[lashicoN]

I think the point IndyMonkey is making is that if you are going to be involved in drugs or other illegal activities you are increasing the odds that bad things are going to happen to you. You should consider this when deciding how you will lead your life.

That is a very valid point. But we are trying to say -

We have as much right to smoke whatever we want as we do to keep and bear arms. We would be this upset is the government was also telling us that was illegal.

And we would be trying to convince you guys that it shouldn't be OK for them or anyone else to tell us that by owning or carrying firearms we are increasing the odds that bad things are going to happen to us. The government shouldn't be trying to bully us like this. And more importantly, we shouldn't be taking this kind of abuse.

The only thing you should consider when deciding how to life your life is - Do you want to live free, or not free?

 

[downzero]

\ Im listening.

You're lost, sir. Maybe one day, you'll see the light of liberty. Until then, there's not much more I can say. When government is granting rights, they are lost, and we are not free men, but slaves.

 

[IndyMonkey]

You're lost, sir. Maybe one day, you'll see the light of liberty. Until then, there's not much more I can say. When government is granting rights, they are lost, and we are not free men, but slaves.

So what time do you get at the state house tomorrow, or do you just sit on the interweb and post about your rights that you have lost?

 

[downzero]

So what time do you get at the state house tomorrow, or do you just sit on the interweb and post about your rights that you have lost?

After I graduate from law school, I imagine I'll be spending quite a bit of time there.

 

[Expat]

That is a very valid point. But we are trying to say -

We have as much right to smoke whatever we want as we do to keep and bear arms. We would be this upset is the government was also telling us that was illegal.

And we would be trying to convince you guys that it shouldn't be OK for them or anyone else to tell us that by owning or carrying firearms we are increasing the odds that bad things are going to happen to us. The government shouldn't be trying to bully us like this. And more importantly, we shouldn't be taking this kind of abuse.

The only thing you should consider when deciding how to life your life is - Do you want to live free, or not free?

And I don't believe the Federal Government has any business getting involved in this issue because I don't see any of the enumerated powers that are granted to the Federal Government being applicable. Certainly each individual State would have that right and ability.