So I got stopped on the Toll Road today, got to make a decision about informing

[Gluemanz28]

i will admit i have not read any "stories" about bad encounter with LEO's in regards to carrying firearms legally. however, being that a traffic stop can be the most dangerous part of the job, i would hand over my LTCH along with other information. if asked (which im sure they will, in their position iw oudl as well) i would answer truthfully.

i think people getting overzealous about "dont ever tell them this/that" are ridiculous. perhaps it has just been my experience, but i have not had a LEO be a dick to me. i have always been courteous and polite, as have they. if i was carrying, and the officer asked me if he coudl inspect the firearm and secure it for the duration of the stop, i would surely inquire as to the reason, but refusing to do so wouldn't be something i even think about. put yourself in the officers shoes - so you want to leave soon? he probably does too. do you want to go home safely? so does he.

while some of these things may be interpreted as "an infringement upon your rights" - if i am not REQUIRED to do something, that does not mean i am opposed to it. if it makes the traffic stop calmer, easier, etc. i will comply, so long as the requests are not extreme in my own opinion.

again - this is the thought of someone who has never carried (LTCH just recently applied for) and never had a negative experience with law enforcement (even though i have received a few tickets)

The problem with your giving the gun up only makes it harder for the next guy that feels that his 2nd amendment gives him the right to keep his gun.

I friend of mine bought a gun from a retired LEO. My friend was stopped for speeding in Michigan. He had to declare in MI and when they asked for the gun he surrendered the gun. They ran the serial numbers on the gun and it came back stolen. My buddy told them where he got the gun and offered to call the retired LEO that he bought it from. The guy told the MI LEO that he did indeed sell the gun to my buddy. They let my buddy go but kept the gun. The guy my buddy got the gun from never made it right with him. My friend bought the gun in good faith but lost out on the deal. I'm not giving up my gun unless I lawfully have to.

I would never purchase a gun that I had even the slightest notion that wasn't legit but I'm not wanting to give them away either.

 

[saleen4971]

well that is unfortunate.

 

[Dirtebiker]

They can't take possession of your firearm unless you are being arrested.

Sure they can!

 

[Dirtebiker]

Len from Len's Ammo was on his way back to South Bend from the Machine Gun Shoot at Knob Creek. He was pulled over for speeding by a ISP Trooper in New Albany, IN. He gave the Trooper his DL and LTCH. The Trooper asked if he was carrying and he said yes. The Trooper asked for his weapon and Len asked if he was being arrested. The Trooper said no. Len informed the Officer that the weapon was safer where it was at and that he did not have to hand over the weapon unless he was being arrested.

The trooper kept referring to his LTCH as a permit and Len told him he didn't have a permit he had a LTCH. Len never surrendered the weapon and was not arrested either. He was given a big fat speeding ticket though. Len contacted the Troopers Superior officer and reported the incident.

Len is a Retired Navy Officer as well as a retired South Bend Police Officer.

AND....?
what was there to report? Did the officer do anything wrong?

 

[Kutnupe14]

The problem with your giving the gun up only makes it harder for the next guy that feels that his 2nd amendment gives him the right to keep his gun.

I friend of mine bought a gun from a retired LEO. My friend was stopped for speeding in Michigan. He had to declare in MI and when they asked for the gun he surrendered the gun. They ran the serial numbers on the gun and it came back stolen. My buddy told them where he got the gun and offered to call the retired LEO that he bought it from. The guy told the MI LEO that he did indeed sell the gun to my buddy. They let my buddy go but kept the gun. The guy my buddy got the gun from never made it right with him. My friend bought the gun in good faith but lost out on the deal. I'm not giving up my gun unless I lawfully have to.

I would never purchase a gun that I had even the slightest notion that wasn't legit but I'm not wanting to give them away either.

That's a pretty interesting story. You're friend would have been in jail if it were me (assuming if I was a MI officer).

 

[Gluemanz28]

AND....?
what was there to report? Did the officer do anything wrong?

Your a big Boy contact Len and ask for yourself
Did Len do anything wrong?

 

[Gluemanz28]

That's a pretty interesting story. You're friend would have been in jail if it were me (assuming if I was a MI officer).

So you buy a gun from a friend that happens to be a Retired LEO so you trust it is legit. I believe that the LEO didn't know it was stolen either or he wouldn't have sold it to a friend. He proved who he bought it from and that he didn't steal it but you would have arrested him?????

 

[Dirtebiker]

i will admit i have not read any "stories" about bad encounter with LEO's in regards to carrying firearms legally. however, being that a traffic stop can be the most dangerous part of the job, i would hand over my LTCH along with other information. if asked (which im sure they will, in their position iw oudl as well) i would answer truthfully.

i think people getting overzealous about "dont ever tell them this/that" are ridiculous. perhaps it has just been my experience, but i have not had a LEO be a dick to me. i have always been courteous and polite, as have they. if i was carrying, and the officer asked me if he coudl inspect the firearm and secure it for the duration of the stop, i would surely inquire as to the reason, but refusing to do so wouldn't be something i even think about. put yourself in the officers shoes - so you want to leave soon? he probably does too. do you want to go home safely? so does he.

while some of these things may be interpreted as "an infringement upon your rights" - if i am not REQUIRED to do something, that does not mean i am opposed to it. if it makes the traffic stop calmer, easier, etc. i will comply, so long as the requests are not extreme in my own opinion.

again - this is the thought of someone who has never carried (LTCH just recently applied for) and never had a negative experience with law enforcement (even though i have received a few tickets)

Your position is understandable, considering your previous (nonexistent) experiences.
I am confident though, that if/when you read some of our interactions, or have one of your own go bad, you WILL change your mind!
Think about it. What makes a simple traffic stop "calmer, easier, etc" by intentionally bringing up information that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reason that you were stopped?
How is it easier to allow an officer to handle your weapon (which in many cases, he has NO experience with), possibly (and usually) sweep you and your passengers with it, unload it, and call in the serial number, just to be given back your gun and a handful of cartridges ten to twenty minutes later?
Before you answer, it is not any less respectful, or more dangerous, to leave your gun where it belongs... IN THE HOLSTER!

 

[Gluemanz28]

Sure they can!

They might get some peoples but they didn't get Lens

 

[Dirtebiker]

They can't take possession of your firearm unless you are being arrested.

. They let my buddy go but kept the gun.

Which is it?
you said "they can't", then given example where "they did"!

 

[Dirtebiker]

Your a big Boy contact Len and ask for yourself
Did Len do anything wrong?

Sorry, I don't know "Len"!
I didn't say he did anything wrong. (but since you ask, I assume he was speeding!?) Simply asked you, what did he report?
No need to get pissy!

 

[Dirtebiker]

So you buy a gun from a friend that happens to be a Retired LEO so you trust it is legit. I believe that the LEO didn't know it was stolen either or he wouldn't have sold it to a friend. He proved who he bought it from and that he didn't steal it but you would have arrested him?????

He didn't "prove" anything!

 

[Kutnupe14]

So you buy a gun from a friend that happens to be a Retired LEO so you trust it is legit. I believe that the LEO didn't know it was stolen either or he wouldn't have sold it to a friend. He proved who he bought it from and that he didn't steal it but you would have arrested him?????

My issue is how did he "prove" who he got it from? There's a lot of leeway given, with the officer's butt on the line. I'm not taking anybody's word that they are a LEO, over the phone, at least concerning something that has come up stolen, according to my records. I may not be understanding the story, but that officer, at least as I understand your narrative, was taking quite the risk.

 

[Dirtebiker]

My issue is how did he "prove" who he got it from? There's a lot of leeway given, with the officer's butt on the line. I'm not taking anybody's word that they are a LEO, over the phone, at least concerning something that has come up stolen, according to my records. I may not be understanding the story, but that officer, at least as I understand your narrative, was taking quite the risk.

Whether the seller was a Leo or not shouldn't have anything to do with it. Is a Leo more trustworthy than someone in another line of work? (a doctor? Priest? McDonald's cashier?)

 

[Gluemanz28]

Which is it?
you said "they can't", then given example where "they did"!

Well first of all those are from two different post and it is nice how you pick what you want instead of posting the whole thing. CLASSY MOVE DUDE.

It was two different guys and two different states so not sure what you are referencing.

If you want to give them your gun then hand it over. I told what happened to Len. He didn't give it up and didn't get arrested. I didn't ask him anymore details about what happened when he reported the incident. He was at his shop and customers came in and I had to leave.

I guess I should have been clearer in my post. They are not getting MINE!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Whether the seller was a Leo or not shouldn't have anything to do with it. Is a Leo more trustworthy than someone in another line of work? (a doctor? Priest? McDonald's cashier?)

That's fair, stolen is stolen

 

[Gluemanz28]

He didn't "prove" anything!

If he didn't then why did they let him go

My issue is how did he "prove" who he got it from? There's a lot of leeway given, with the officer's butt on the line. I'm not taking anybody's word that they are a LEO, over the phone, at least concerning something that has come up stolen, according to my records. I may not be understanding the story, but that officer, at least as I understand your narrative, was taking quite the risk.

This was 10 years ago and the Edwardsburg, MI officer knew the Elkhart, IN officer my buddy bought the gun from.

I never asked my buddy what ever became of the deal the the Retired LEO other then to ask if the guy gave him his money back. He said no and he never bought another gun from him.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well first of all those are from two different post and it is nice how you pick what you want instead of posting the whole thing. CLASSY MOVE DUDE.

It was two different guys and two different states so not sure what you are referencing.

If you want to give them your gun then hand it over. I told what happened to Len. He didn't give it up and didn't get arrested. I didn't ask him anymore details about what happened when he reported the incident. He was at his shop and customers came in and I had to leave.

I guess I should have been clearer in my post. They are not getting MINE!

I will suggest, that if a LEO wants to disarm you, even if he is in the wrong; that you allow him to disarm you. There, unfortunately, are still a good number of Officers that are uncomfortable with firearms, and as of now, have the law on their side (at least in Indiana). The LAST thing you want to do is physically resist being disarmed, as you aren't going to win that battle. Afterwards, you may seek a legal remedy, but in the moment, I strongly suggest that you comply.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Whether the seller was a Leo or not shouldn't have anything to do with it. Is a Leo more trustworthy than someone in another line of work? (a doctor? Priest? McDonald's cashier?)

Yes LEO should be more trust worthy.
I trust a Doctor when he says I have the flu
I trust a Priest to give spiritual advise
I trust the McDonalds cashier to give correct change

That's fair, stolen is stolen

Did you not take a oath??

 

[Gluemanz28]

I will suggest, that if a LEO wants to disarm you, even if he is in the wrong; that you allow him to disarm you. There, unfortunately, are still a good number of Officers that are uncomfortable with firearms, and as of now, have the law on their side (at least in Indiana). The LAST thing you want to do is physically resist being disarmed, as you aren't going to win that battle. Afterwards, you may seek a legal remedy, but in the moment, I strongly suggest that you comply.

I will not fight with them. I will keep my hands in plain sight, even in the air but I will not remove my firearm and hand it to them. If they remove it from me that will be their choice. I will also let them know that do not agree to my firearm being removed.

I will ask for a supervisor as well