Dave lauck as well.A really good author who covers this question in great detail is Patrick Sweeney. His books on the AR-15 are awesome.
Dave lauck as well.A really good author who covers this question in great detail is Patrick Sweeney. His books on the AR-15 are awesome.
most people will be just fine with any of the commercial AR's, most owners will not put enough rounds throughout to cause any significant wear.
Like my boy when he returned from his deployment last year. I always out shot him. He came home and out shot me. I guess I'm getting older and losing my touch or it was all that training he got with some of our special forces guys. I know one thing they got him ready and did a great job improving his marksmanship.I've a Colt LE6920 M4 (it's roll-marked that way) that I've tuned up a bit to my own preferences (aftermarket trigger, buffer, charging handle, BAD lever, compensator).
It has run well on both the Lake City 55 and 62 grain. Re accuracy, it prefers the 62gr by a bit, but it doesn't do at all badly with the 55.
Other than the god-awful factory trigger it came with, I can't say I've had a complaint about that carbine.
Buddy of mine who was Marine infantry in Afghanistan shot it with me at range one day, and we gave it a nice workout. He said it was pretty much the same rifle he carried and that he thought the tune-up was nice. Said he could get by with it, for sure.
Man outshot me, of course. I've yet to shoot with a Marine who can't run a rifle quite nicely.
Agree. There's a lot of low and even mid tier guns that leave the factory in a state that is not functional. As in, will not complete their first full magazine of standard ammunition without a stoppage.This isn't true. It's not a wear issue in most cases of people having issues with cheaper end commercial ar15's. It's loose barrel nuts, untrue upper reciever to barrel surface that max out an optics elevation just to zero, poor metal quality bolts, out of spec chambers, leaking gas blocks, out of spec bores, unstaked castle nuts, overgassed systems compensating for poor build quality, out of spec buffer retainers that snap and clog the receiver with an uncaptive buffer, soft steel sears, soft steel safety selectors that gall and eventually seize, out of spec receivers that require tools to tap out take down pins.....
These are not wear problems many of these manifest within the first 5 or 6 range trips. Sometimes the first.
I see a lot of high round count M4's used by the basic training companies. If they have problems it's usually traced back to a couple things, bad magazines or extractor/extractor spring issues. 'Unit armorers' are a thing of the past at least in basic training or we could fix a lot of these issues quickly. Those assigned as the armorer now are E4's or E5's who's main job is to keep track of serial numbers and sign out sensitive items. They don't keep any parts on hand anymore. If you have a problem on the range you have to wait for the 'weapons truck' to show up manned by a civilian contractor. At the end of the cycle the weapons do get inspected and gauged and repaired but again these are civilian contractors that do it now. For that matter even your 'supply clerks' are now augmented with or answer to civilian contractors.oh boy, I could write volumes about the ****** weapons I got issued but I’ll keep it short and hit the high notes.
Served in a non combat MOS reserve unit, deployed once to a combat zone although my job is not combat. That said I got issued a couple different rifles during work up (for some reason they never assigned S/N to a particular soldier) And every single one was a worn out old m16a2. Barrels were pretty well shot out with some evidence of key holing. Many had excessive wear on the finish and some had mechanical failures more frequently than I would now call acceptable. Now this may have been from poor quality, ****** old mags or just plain wear. One of the rifles I had the three round burst actually just fired a random number of bullets that was different every time. Sometimes it might shoot one, next time it would shoot 5-6.
They promised us new fancy m4’s that never arrived. We deployed with these weapons, again not in great shape. Due to our actual job 95% of the weapons got turned in at the armory once we got to country. Some of the command staff (warrant, top, CO and S shop sergeants) got issued M9’s from said armory. Those pistols looked like they had been in country since the 1st gulf war. Finish was nonexistent, as to how they shot I have no idea because I don’t think they ever went to a range with them but I doubt they functioned any better than they look.
So are some of the weapons front line units get issued of better quality than say an Aero like I run now? Maybe when they are new but certainly not after a few years of use and abuse. Parts wear out and a soldier in OSUT now fires 3775 live rounds in just 22 weeks. This doesn’t count the probably well over 1k blanks they shoot too. I’m not in the infantry but I did hand them out their ammo and let me tell you that one training ammo draw would blow you away with how many rounds they go through. They would pickup several 10’s of thousands of rounds seemed like every other week or so.
point is maybe better quality to start with but long term most rifles in the army are pushed well beyond where most of us would just buy a new gun.
Amazing how times have changed.I see a lot of high round count M4's used by the basic training companies. If they have problems it's usually traced back to a couple things, bad magazines or extractor/extractor spring issues. 'Unit armorers' are a thing of the past at least in basic training or we could fix a lot of these issues quickly. Those assigned as the armorer now are E4's or E5's who's main job is to keep track of serial numbers and sign out sensitive items. They don't keep any parts on hand anymore. If you have a problem on the range you have to wait for the 'weapons truck' to show up manned by a civilian contractor. At the end of the cycle the weapons do get inspected and gauged and repaired but again these are civilian contractors that do it now. For that matter even your 'supply clerks' are now augmented with or answer to civilian contractors.
Many civilians that I see don't need a $3000 AR, they need a $600 AR and $2400 worth of training.
There are many reasons why Rock River, Wilson, Daniel Defense, LaRue, Bravo Company and Ruger ARs are not going down range.
There is absolutely no reason why a $600 AR can't serve someone well, for it's intended purpose.The problem is that a 600 dollar rifle won't make it through 2400 worth of training. No ifs ands or buts.
Daniel defense is heavily involved in special ops rifles and carbines, they have tons of leo contacts federal and local. Larue does have mil contracts but for accessories. Larue has multiple agencies using them. Bcm has rifles and uppers in use by spec ops.
There is absolutely no reason why a $600 AR can't serve someone well, for it's intended purpose.
Most civilians are not going to shoot/carry a rifle daily.
I carry a $650, stock, DPMS for the Sheriff’s office. It has never failed me and I can out shoot the other guys high dollar rifles, in training/qualifications.
Ok, let me say, there are many reasons those guy's rifles are not going down range, en mass.
In 2018 colt 6920s were 850, today they are 1450 ish. The 6920 is the baseline carbine and the latter ones had a rash of qc issues. Hopefully cz fixes this.
Dpms hasn't built consistent quality since the buyout. Older dpms was alright. The dpms issues are extremely well documented with evidence.
650 will not buy an in spec carbine today at all. 900 will start to get a person into a carbine that will consistently perform. The era of the 650 dollar ar15 is gone for at least 3 more years.
At what point would you consider an "entry level" ar good to go? If it survived 1k rounds, 5k rounds? I'm asking because I have a psa I built as my first ar 7-8 years ago. Idk how many thousands of rounds and abuse it's taken. I trust it, but having been years in manufacturing, I know what you said is true. Just like you can get plenty of lemons the cheaper you go, good ones also slip out.This isn't true. It's not a wear issue in most cases of people having issues with cheaper end commercial ar15's. It's loose barrel nuts, untrue upper reciever to barrel surface that max out an optics elevation just to zero, poor metal quality bolts, out of spec chambers, leaking gas blocks, out of spec bores, unstaked castle nuts, overgassed systems compensating for poor build quality, out of spec buffer retainers that snap and clog the receiver with an uncaptive buffer, soft steel sears, soft steel safety selectors that gall and eventually seize, out of spec receivers that require tools to tap out take down pins.....
These are not wear problems many of these manifest within the first 5 or 6 range trips. Sometimes the first.
At what point would you consider an "entry level" ar good to go? If it survived 1k rounds, 5k rounds? I'm asking because I have a psa I built as my first ar 7-8 years ago. Idk how many thousands of rounds and abuse it's taken. I trust it, but having been years in manufacturing, I know what you said is true. Just like you can get plenty of lemons the cheaper you go, good ones also slip out.
I'm just saying in the current and foreseeable future market 650 will barely buy you an omni that isn't an opinion its a fact. And there was a pretty huge gap between dpms of the 90s and early 2000s and the dpms that was in every rk for 600 over the past few years. Even anodizing was skimped on.I can see that you have an opinion and that is fine. I can only speak from my experiences. Regards.
I thought colt brought out the 6940 line to fix the 6920 mess.In 2018 colt 6920s were 850, today they are 1450 ish. The 6920 is the baseline carbine and the latter ones had a rash of qc issues. Hopefully cz fixes this.
Dpms hasn't built consistent quality since the buyout. Older dpms was alright. The dpms issues are extremely well documented with evidence.
650 will not buy an in spec carbine today at all. 900 will start to get a person into a carbine that will consistently perform. The era of the 650 dollar ar15 is gone for at least 3 more years.