Saw a "gun sense" booth today

[JetGirl]

I've always said it. You just won't read it.

Well...I guess we still have a ways to go with the credible aspect.

 

[Smokepole]

Fletch, you may not realize it, but yes - volunteering for a 2A booth (as I defined) is indication you are not going to change your mind.

I too have seen people change their minds on world view issues, but they are few and far between. I'm not advocating apathy or rudeness or indifference. If course I will always talk with anyone who's civil and wants to talk, but I refuse to have an argument with someone who's mind is closed.

I goofed, this was supposed to respond to the following post by billt:

Here is yet another factor to be considered. In the 50 years I've been a gun owner, I've found most gun owners, again most, not all (get that part Jet Girl?), tend to keep to themselves and their own kind. They socialize at their local gun club or shop. Or else with hunting and shooting buddies. They don't hang around anti gun people. I don't, and never have. I know dozens personally who are just like me. I'll be retiring in 6 months, and that situation is going to expand. Because I won't be around over 400 co workers any more.

Who the hell are we supposed to convert? We're already preaching to the choir. I don't hang with anti's period. If I find a person is anti gun, I don't want anything to do with them. I don't need or want to know any more. We have nothing in common. Before I met my wife, I had many dates end by 8:30 because the subject of guns came up. When I met her, and we ended up back at my place, I showed her my collection. Her first reply was, "When are we going to go out and shoot these things!" Bingo. We were married 2 months later, and have been for the last 30 years.

There is little to no opportunity for most die hard gun owners to "engage" anti's in showing them the error of their ways. What the hell are most of us supposed to do, attend a Handgun Control convention? Most anti's are the same way. Yeah, sure, if you've got some huge family your paths may cross with a few anti's from time to time. But for the most part, pro gun and anti gun people lead separate lives. They just do. That's the way it is.

Accurate to a point. Many (most?) that change from a Liberal to a Conservative viewpoint do it over time. The metamorphosis happens as they age and mature and many times have kids. But for some the change comes about as an epiphany. This is why often conservatives are referred to as the adults in the room. They have a greater tendency to follow mom's sage advice as we were teenagers to "never make an important decision when you emotions are high. It usually leads to bad decision making."
David Horowitz and Harry Stein (How I Accidentally Joined "The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" and Found Inner Peace). These were both card carrying and in the case of Horowitz RABID Liberal Leftists that CHANGED. It takes time and the effort to sow the seeds of change. Will they all change? We all know the answer is no. But we do know that some will. Over time with the proper seeds and nurturing, just like a garden and nature miraculous things happen. See the two examples listed (and read Harry's book, it's both a blast and enlightening). Problem is we can't know which ones will. Hence the case for engaging with . . . . The Dark Side! when the opportunity presents itsself. Just plant the seeds with the correct information and ATTITUDE! No one EVER changes their beliefs at one given point in time. The change requires exposure over time. In the case of someone that you don't know, throw the seeds on the ground and hope for the best and that others do the same. With someone that you know, plant the seeds gently time after time and softly nurture the effort. OVER TIME. If we don't take the time many fewer minds will change and we will just be letting the problem fester.

Just my $.02

 

[TwinTurbo]

Here is yet another factor to be considered. In the 50 years I've been a gun owner, I've found most gun owners, again most, not all (get that part Jet Girl?), tend to keep to themselves and their own kind. They socialize at their local gun club or shop. Or else with hunting and shooting buddies. They don't hang around anti gun people. I don't, and never have. I know dozens personally who are just like me. I'll be retiring in 6 months, and that situation is going to expand. Because I won't be around over 400 co workers any more.

Who the hell are we supposed to convert? We're already preaching to the choir. I don't hang with anti's period. If I find a person is anti gun, I don't want anything to do with them. I don't need or want to know any more. We have nothing in common. Before I met my wife, I had many dates end by 8:30 because the subject of guns came up. When I met her, and we ended up back at my place, I showed her my collection. Her first reply was, "When are we going to go out and shoot these things!" Bingo. We were married 2 months later, and have been for the last 30 years.

There is little to no opportunity for most die hard gun owners to "engage" anti's in showing them the error of their ways. What the hell are most of us supposed to do, attend a Handgun Control convention? Most anti's are the same way. Yeah, sure, if you've got some huge family your paths may cross with a few anti's from time to time. But for the most part, pro gun and anti gun people lead separate lives. They just do. That's the way it is.

No offense intended, but you could try not living in a bubble. The world isn't neatly divided into pro-gun & anti-gun people that are dead set in their ways. There are many, many people that just aren't educated enough in firearms to make an informed decision. They might be indifferent, slightly pro-gun, slightly anti-gun or whatever other label you would like to apply. Maybe instead of only hanging around like minded individuals, you could try to branch out for a change.

I just went shooting two weekends ago with someone who has never fired a gun before. I can't say for certain that he was pro- or anti-gun, but I know that the experience was impactful, informative and showed that firearms can be entertaining and, if needed, tools for defensive purposes. Try embracing people that lack experiences similar to your own, and you might be surprised at the result.

Also, his wife thought the pics of him shooting were 'super hot', so that further promotes a "guns are good" ideology in their family, for both him and his wife.

 

[Smokepole]

Here is yet another factor to be considered. In the 50 years I've been a gun owner, I've found most gun owners, again most, not all (get that part Jet Girl?), tend to keep to themselves and their own kind. They socialize at their local gun club or shop. Or else with hunting and shooting buddies. They don't hang around anti gun people. I don't, and never have. I know dozens personally who are just like me. I'll be retiring in 6 months, and that situation is going to expand. Because I won't be around over 400 co workers any more.

Who the hell are we supposed to convert? We're already preaching to the choir. I don't hang with anti's period. If I find a person is anti gun, I don't want anything to do with them. I don't need or want to know any more. We have nothing in common. Before I met my wife, I had many dates end by 8:30 because the subject of guns came up. When I met her, and we ended up back at my place, I showed her my collection. Her first reply was, "When are we going to go out and shoot these things!" Bingo. We were married 2 months later, and have been for the last 30 years.

There is little to no opportunity for most die hard gun owners to "engage" anti's in showing them the error of their ways. What the hell are most of us supposed to do, attend a Handgun Control convention? Most anti's are the same way. Yeah, sure, if you've got some huge family your paths may cross with a few anti's from time to time. But for the most part, pro gun and anti gun people lead separate lives. They just do. That's the way it is.

What you describe is simply HUMAN NATURE. It is how most people live their life and steer their course. Those that are able to affect change eschew that thinking and behavior and venture outside THE BOX that is human nature (ex: Fletch). Those that don't rarely leave the box. Call it the Comfort Zone, Myopic thinking, whatever, but staying in the box will not advance the cause at all.

 

[JetGirl]

Maybe instead of only hanging around like minded individuals, you could try to branch out for a change.

That would require effort, reasoning and the task of respecting another human being for a nanosecond.

 

[Smokepole]

That's great. Really, it is. But while you were out "educating", and passing out flyers, Obama was giving out free cell phones, health care, food stamps, and putting thousands on disability who don't deserve it, but love him for it. Who do you think did a better job "converting"? Yes, no question yours was the more admirable approach. But not the most successful. Not by a long shot.

And would you know what segment of the populous is the fastest growing segment of the hunting and LTCH applicants across the country? WOMEN! A group that was formerly considered not worth the time to approach. They are also among those fastest leaving the Liberal side. Go figure.

 

[billt]

No offense intended, but you could try not living in a bubble. The world isn't neatly divided into pro-gun & anti-gun people that are dead set in their ways. There are many, many people that just aren't educated enough in firearms to make an informed decision. They might be indifferent, slightly pro-gun, slightly anti-gun or whatever other label you would like to apply. Maybe instead of only hanging around like minded individuals, you could try to branch out for a change.

I don't "live in a bubble". I simply don't hang with anti's. Just how do you propose I, and others like me, "branch out"? I, along with most others, are not going to change my/our lifestyle, in order to be around people I have no desire to be around in the first place. That's ridiculous. I've had people ask for my opinion about this or that gun. Or else ask what type or brand of gun I would purchase for what they want or need. I'm more than happy to help them make an informed decision. Or help them save a few bucks by steering them to the right place to buy. Or try one of my guns to see if they like it.

But I'm sure as hell not going to "expand my horizons" by going out of my way in order to play meet and greet with anti gunners. Any more than a church group is going to go to the local strip joint, to try and convert topless dancers into born again Christians. People like to assimilate with their own kind. It's human nature. And I'm not going against it to try to convert someone who wants no part of what I'm selling to begin with. That's about as productive a use of time as hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels good when you stop.

 

[Fletch]

Here is yet another factor to be considered. In the 50 years I've been a gun owner, I've found most gun owners, again most, not all (get that part Jet Girl?), tend to keep to themselves and their own kind. They socialize at their local gun club or shop. Or else with hunting and shooting buddies. They don't hang around anti gun people. I don't, and never have.

Number One problem we had passing concealed carry reform in Michigan: other gun owners. The anti's were small and unorganized and ultimately got defeated pretty easily. Other gun owners threw more roadblocks in the way than any other 5 groups combined.

In the middle of it, we estimated that it takes 10 gun owners NOT acting like *******s to the general public or anti-gunners to counteract the negative impact of 1 who did. If the media was involved, it took 100 non-*******s.

One other thing that surprised me was the number of gun owners who refused to join the NRA or the local org I was with, because they didn't want to be counted among the "crazies". I would say it was at least 3 of those for every 2 that said "sure, I'll sign up and help out".

Who the hell are we supposed to convert? We're already preaching to the choir. I don't hang with anti's period. If I find a person is anti gun, I don't want anything to do with them. I don't need or want to know any more. We have nothing in common.

The most common thing I hear from anti-gunners after I engage with them: "I wish more gun owners were like you, but you're the exception."

Every gun owner who behaves like a jerk might as well hand anti-gunners the keys to his gun safe and say "take 'em all". They're not helping.

 

[TwinTurbo]

That would require effort, reasoning and the task of respecting another human being for a nanosecond.

Oh, well, in that case I'm just going to go hang out with my own like-minded friends: guys that wear speedos to the pool and/or beach when they probably shouldn't.

 

[billt]

And would you know what segment of the populous is the fastest growing segment of the hunting and LTCH applicants across the country? WOMEN! A group that was formerly considered not worth the time to approach. They are also among those fastest leaving the Liberal side. Go figure.

And they're becoming gun owners because they are jumping into the world of concealed carry, that wasn't available to them just a few years ago. Not because they were miraculously "converted" by some silver tonged pro gunner.

 

[Rick60]

Ok so maybe I just don't get what people are getting all riled up about... As far as the gun sense booth in Bloomington goes, my wife and I intend to go visit them this weekend. Not to debate them BUT to listen to them. I would really like to give a chance to talk openly about what their agenda consists of. Not that we will agree with them but, if I know my opponent then I can oppose them in a more realistic manner.

 

[JetGirl]

And they're becoming gun owners because they are jumping into the world of concealed carry, that wasn't available to them just a few years ago. Not because they were miraculously "converted" by some silver tonged pro gunner.

Please link your source to that info. Thanks.

 

[billt]

That would require effort, reasoning and the task of respecting another human being for a nanosecond.

Now you're being just plain stupid. Nothing more. People can "respect" people without having, or wanting to hang out with them. I'm going to do what I enjoy doing. In that process I'm going to be meeting people who have similar interests, not opposite ones. Do you go to lesbian bars? Why not? Is it because you hate and disrespect them??

 

[billt]

Please link your source to that info. Thanks.

Why Female Gun Ownership is Up 77% Since 2005 - Celia Bigelow - Page full

Nowhere does it mention women buying guns because they've been "converted" from an anti gun posture. To quote the article:

"Women--including myself--have a different reason: It’s self-defense, stupid."

Sounds pretty clear to me.

 

[JetGirl]

Now you're being just plain stupid. Nothing more.

If you're going to resort to personal insults yet again, I'll invite you once more (no doubt ignored again) to take it to PM.

People can "respect" people without having, or wanting to hang out with them. I'm going to do what I enjoy doing. In that process I'm going to be meeting people who have similar interests, not opposite ones. Do you go to lesbian bars? Why not? Is it because you hate and disrespect them??

One of the previous posters was spot on. You do post as if you live in a bubble. The world is not a box of segmented compartments with this group and that group neatly segregated over in those blocks.

 

[Fletch]

Why Female Gun Ownership is Up 77% Since 2005 - Celia Bigelow - Page full

Nowhere does it mention women buying guns because they've been "converted" from an anti gun posture.

Nowhere does it say that they haven't been converted, either. This article is null evidence in either direction vis-a-vis the conversion argument.

All it says is that self-defense is a primary reason women become gun owners. Whether that reason was presented to them by someone like me or spontaneously occurred to them is not addressed, nor is their stance prior to the decision to acquire a gun for self-defense.

 

[JetGirl]

Why Female Gun Ownership is Up 77% Since 2005 - Celia Bigelow - Page full

Nowhere does it mention women buying guns because they've been "converted" from an anti gun posture. To quote the article:

"Women--including myself--have a different reason: It’s self-defense, stupid."

Sounds pretty clear to me.

So the author, a woman named Celia Bigelow, is speaking for every other woman? That's funny...I never got the polling questions.
I think I'm gonna stick with "Speak for yourself" as far as someone speaking for all gun-owning women is concerned.

 

[billt]

If you're going to resort to personal insults yet again, I'll invite you once more (no doubt ignored again) to take it to PM.

Don't pull that silly crap with me. You insinuate that I am disrespectful because I associate with like people. That's pure nonsense. Something you appear to be quite full of lately in your posts. Here is a hint. If you don't want to be called stupid, don't act it by insulting people in third party comments in the first place. You want to act like a smart ass, then don't complain when it gets you said results. Then wave the PM flag. Grow the hell up.

 

[billt]

So the author, a woman named Celia Bigelow, is speaking for every other woman? That's funny...I never got the polling questions.
I think I'm gonna stick with "Speak for yourself" as far as someone speaking for all gun-owning women is concerned.

Hey, you wanted a link backing up what I said. I gave it to you. Now, you don't agree with it. Too bad, and who cares?

 

[JetGirl]

Hey, you wanted a link backing up what I said. I gave it to you.

Your link backed up nothing. It's just a woman trying to speak for everyone else. No dice.