Santa Fe Police Confront Man for Open Carring Legally

[jedi]

Ive seen case rulings posted on here where judges say that the act of just carrying a gun is not probable cause for an ID check. so many variables. maybe someone needs to be the "test case"

The rulings you are thinking of me thinks is the federal ones which may/may not apply to IN.

Why not just skip this ENTIRE issue and change the laws of IN to be like VT. NO PERMIT NEEDED FOR FIREARM; YOU CAN OC/CC TO YOUR HEARTS CONTEND. What part of "will not infringe" can the law-makers not understand!

 

[dross]

Clearly the guy is an activist. Not my bag, but that's one way to make changes. I think we know the answers to the questions he was asking. If they had truly believed they could legally detain him, they wouldn't have spent all that time talking, he would have just been ordered to produce the ID.

I say good for him.

 

[henktermaat]

LEO #2 was a pretty good guy, aside from his lack of knowledge of the law in that state and blatant lies.

Also - He's got some cajones to just tell them he's going to end the conversation and legally leave the scene.

 

[rhart]

Outstanding video!

 

[reload4ever]

stupid...stupid...stupid!

 

[IndyMonkey]

stupid...stupid...stupid!

Its ok, not everyone fits into the sheep mentality.

 

[Deadly Z Driver]

I think he did a good job. I'm not sure why he walked up on the traffic stop but he handled himself well enough and educated a couple of officers. Good for him.

Its one thing to openly carry legally but this guy is out looking for trouble. He is trying to find a cop that isn't as knowledgeable as he should be. My opinion is that this guy shouldn't be doing this, but obviously he is not doing anything illegal. I would definitely produce my I.D. if asked regardless if I wasn't doing anything illegal. He has no respect for the LEO that put their lives on the line for us. I know if I was LEO and someone walked up on my traffic stop openly carrying I would ask if they had their LTCH. I know I would want to be blindly attacked by someone who may or may not be legally carrying.

 

[cosermann]

The rulings you are thinking of me thinks is the federal ones which may/may not apply to IN.

Hmm. Yeah. It was a federal judge ruling concerning a case in New Mexico (where unlicensed OC is legal). And yes, I think it would have a different outcome in Indiana because our carry laws are different, i.e. in some states, like NM, it is not a prima facia crime to OC, in Indiana it might be, depending on whether the individual is licensed or not.

Update: Here's a link to some of the details.

Federal judge rules police cannot detain people for openly carrying guns

 

[level.eleven]

The guy in the video was responding to a citizens safety call. His girlfriend was being robbed at the side of the road. He was just videotaping the robbery to make sure it didn't spiral out of control.

He's one of the Motor Home Diary guys, if anyone has ever heard of them.

 

[LEaSH]

man, that copblock site is a little errr, provocative.

 

[Tripp11]

Not knowing the real story behind it all, but it sounds like he told his GF to drive around and get pulled over on purpose and call him ASAP so he could walk up on the traffic stop, armed and videotape the officer's response.

Sounds like they gotta lot of time on their hands...

 

[henktermaat]

Not knowing the real story behind it all, but it sounds like he told his GF to drive around and get pulled over on purpose and call him ASAP so he could walk up on the traffic stop, armed and videotape the officer's response.

Sounds like they gotta lot of time on their hands...

Yeah. If we're guessing, anything is possible. Perhaps the cops were fraudsters or illegal aliens pretending to be cops, when in reality they wanted to recruit mules for border drug runs.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Yeah. If we're guessing, anything is possible. Perhaps the cops were fraudsters or illegal aliens pretending to be cops, when in reality they wanted to recruit mules for border drug runs.

I agree. Really there is no point in speculating what led up to it and what the motive was because none of us really know until we get more information.

 

[level.eleven]

Not knowing the real story behind it all, but it sounds like he told his GF to drive around and get pulled over on purpose and call him ASAP so he could walk up on the traffic stop, armed and videotape the officer's response.

Sounds like they gotta lot of time on their hands...

It wasn't planned. His girlfriend was on her way home when here assailant initiated force in attempt to take money from her. She called her boyfriend to inform him that she was being robbed. Being several blocks away, he drove over to get the robbery on film, and to ensure his girlfriend's safety.

Dross is correct, the man is a liberty activist and recently completed traveling the United States documenting the crumbling notion of personal freedom in various states.

I knew about him initially, but heard him on the radio last night giving the details of this situation.

 

[dross]

Its one thing to openly carry legally but this guy is out looking for trouble. He is trying to find a cop that isn't as knowledgeable as he should be. My opinion is that this guy shouldn't be doing this, but obviously he is not doing anything illegal. I would definitely produce my I.D. if asked regardless if I wasn't doing anything illegal. He has no respect for the LEO that put their lives on the line for us. I know if I was LEO and someone walked up on my traffic stop openly carrying I would ask if they had their LTCH. I know I would want to be blindly attacked by someone who may or may not be legally carrying.

What about all the people who might be carrying concealed? Perhaps the cops should have the power to stop, frisk, and require ID from anyone they deem suspicious. After all, they put their lives on the line "for us." What are our rights compared to that?

 

[SSGSAD]

but if there was no probable cause to get to the point where they ask me for my LTCH then doesnt that invalidate their request?? just asking.

You do not have to go to Ft. Wayne, just go downtown, around the circle, at lunchtime..... and let us know what happens....

 

[Deadly Z Driver]

What about all the people who might be carrying concealed? Perhaps the cops should have the power to stop, frisk, and require ID from anyone they deem suspicious. After all, they put their lives on the line "for us." What are our rights compared to that?

I am not trying to start an argument by any means! This guy is out looking for trouble and while he was within the law, I think it shows very little tact.

 

[E5RANGER375]

You do not have to go to Ft. Wayne, just go downtown, around the circle, at lunchtime..... and let us know what happens....

oh yeah then i'll get razzed by the state capitol police. i know them guys dont wanna take the time to do paperwork, it would be a total waste of time if i wanted to be an activist. id have to jump on their car to get em to see me.

 

[kingnereli]

...he is not doing anything illegal...

while he was within the law,

This is all I need to see.

 

[Bill of Rights]

It was easy to tell why the traffic officer is the age he is and still doing traffic. Bumbling fool.

Someone correct me if Im wrong but we have to produce our LTCH when asked, crime or not, correct?

Or it could be that he actually likes interacting with people as well. Admittedly, he didn't do it very well with this guy, specifically in the matter of his constant references to his scene and to his safety. At that point, the "scene" was terminated, the cameraman was leaving, and there was no action against nor threat to his safety at all.
While he may have been lying, I also consider it possible that he was misinformed or just mistaken. I don't excuse either of those, if they are the case, but neither would indicate malice, as "LIE!" does.

Yes, here in Indiana, you must produce your LTCH on request of an officer if you are carrying a firearm. I have not seen specific text to limit it to that situation, but IIRC, a passenger in a vehicle cannot be commanded to produce a driver's license unless that person has been seen or is about to be driving a car on a public street. Logically, then, there is no need to produce a LTCH if you are not carrying a handgun.

I also see where some have said something about the girlfriend being a victim of a robbery. Why then, in the video does he say she was pulled over for using a cell phone while driving, something the town bureaucrats recently decided was "illegal"?

The cameraman does appear to have been out looking for a confrontation. If all he's doing is videotaping, he can do that from a distance, such that the officer never sees him. He can spin it however he wants, but his actions and his manner were both confrontational. The original LEO was also, especially considering that following him at a crawl was totally unnecessary.

Personally, I think the whole da*n thing was full of fail.

Blessings,
Bill