Reloading .380: The Ghetto Method

[Milsurp]

So having a bunch of .380 brass, no .380 dies, and some time I decided to experiment.

With my .38 and .357 dies, I can decap and FL size the brass. I can get my .38 expander about 1/8 " into the case mouth but that's it. It's enough to get dents out of the case mouth.


After sizing, case OD is .375"

As long as the wall of the case isn't dented and I can get by without belling the casemouth, any reason my ghetto expander die setup wouldn't be OK?

I loaded a 110 gr JHP .357 dia. over 2.9 gr Win 231 and a CCI 500 SPP with an OAL of .980

At that depth the cannelure is in about the right spot. However, I don't hear any loose powder shaking. The bullet hasn't been pushed out any in the past few days by the powder. Think it's compressed enough to cause problems?

Is a .357" bullet too tight in a (assuming, haven't slugged) .355" bore?

Wish I had a lathe...

 

[x10]

what a guy used to do a while back was to drop a 357 bullet into a fired 38 case and resize the case and the bullet would come out about the right size to put in 9mm, We were trying to make heavy 9mm bullets before they were on the market

 

[El Cazador]

I think you'll get a lot of copper fouling, since you're using jacketed bullets and the bullet's larger than a standard round's diameter. You list "230" as your powder. Do you mean Win 231, or Vihta Vhouri N320? 2.9 grains is a little low for a starting point for W231, as my books with 231 listed show a start point at 3.6 grains, and 3.1 for the Vihta. Be careful of squibs.

Do you not worry about taper crimp on the rounds?

 

[Old Syko]

I think you'll get a lot of copper fouling, since you're using jacketed bullets and the bullet's larger than a standard round's diameter. You list "230" as your powder. Do you mean Win 231, or Vihta Vhouri N320? 2.9 grains is a little low for a starting point for W231, as my books with 231 listed show a start point at 3.6 grains, and 3.1 for the Vihta. Be careful of squibs.

Do you not worry about taper crimp on the rounds?

230 was the predecessor to todays WW231 even though they are of totally different compounds and specs. I still use 230 myself. Mine is circa 1973 and still works well. Hornady's starting load for .355 dia. 115 gr. hollow point with 230 is 1.8 gr. to a max of 2.4. Add in the excessive large slug used and KABOOM may well be the end result.

I know an old boy who blew up a Contender in 22 Hornet because he used .224 bullets instead of the required .223. Good Luck!

 

[Milsurp]

I think you'll get a lot of copper fouling, since you're using jacketed bullets and the bullet's larger than a standard round's diameter. You list "230" as your powder. Do you mean Win 231, or Vihta Vhouri N320? 2.9 grains is a little low for a starting point for W231, as my books with 231 listed show a start point at 3.6 grains, and 3.1 for the Vihta. Be careful of squibs.

Do you not worry about taper crimp on the rounds?

Oops, I meant Win 231! My data listed 2.9 gr as a starting point for a 100 grain bullet so I thought I'd start real mild for the 110's. I only have a handful of the .357 bullets that I need to shoot up, so the extra copper fouling might be doable.

The crimping did cross my mind. My .38 factory crimp die won't reach. However, since the case mouths don't get belled at all, there really isn't that much of a ledge. This one round I made has been feeding reliably in my KT when I pull back the slide and let it strip it from the mag.

what a guy used to do a while back was to drop a 357 bullet into a fired 38 case and resize the case and the bullet would come out about the right size to put in 9mm, We were trying to make heavy 9mm bullets before they were on the market

Thanks, think I'll try that!

 

[Milsurp]

230 was the predecessor to todays WW231 even though they are of totally different compounds and specs. I still use 230 myself. Mine is circa 1973 and still works well. Hornady's starting load for .355 dia. 115 gr. hollow point with 230 is 1.8 gr. to a max of 2.4. Add in the excessive large slug used and KABOOM may well be the end result.

I know an old boy who blew up a Contender in 22 Hornet because he used .224 bullets instead of the required .223. Good Luck!

I think I accidentally said 230 because I had been reading my circa 1973 loading manual. The data I got was from hogdons website for 231 though.

That extra .002" does make me nervous. I'll try the sizing trick and if that doesn't work I guess I'll have to use those bullets for their intended purpose.

 

[Old Syko]

That extra .002" does make me nervous. I'll try the sizing trick and if that doesn't work I guess I'll have to use those bullets for their intended purpose.

If they were cast slugs from a #2 alloy or softer they would shoot just fine. Jacketed on the other hand, may be a different story. If you were close, I would give you proper sized slugs just to keep you from trying this.

Your 38 size dies should be cut to size to .379 and .373 is what is required for .380. None of this sounds good to me!

 

[Disposable Heart]

Not a very good idea. Old Syko has it right, its not sizing right, plus the copper fouling. It will also spike the pressure up due to the increased obfuscation of the bore due to the larger boolit. The boolit for .38 may be too long for the .380 case as well. I have heard of guys loading 115 bullets, even one guy (cant remember the recipe) that used Red Dot and 125gr lead, but still was a hot, a bit too hot for .380.

Also, second note, the powder has changed DRAMATICALLY since the 1970s. Your manual may be out of date. I have an old Speer manual from the 80s that almost comploded my old XD. Looking at it, compared to newer manuals, the pressure numbers and powder charges are vastly different.

Get a new manual, pull those bullets and get appropriate stuff for the task (dies included), this all is screaming disaster.

 

[Milsurp]

If they were cast slugs from a #2 alloy or softer they would shoot just fine. Jacketed on the other hand, may be a different story. If you were close, I would give you proper sized slugs just to keep you from trying this.

Your 38 size dies should be cut to size to .379 and .373 is what is required for .380. None of this sounds good to me!

What problems can arise from the case being too wide (.379 as opposed to .373)?

Not a very good idea. Old Syko has it right, its not sizing right, plus the copper fouling. It will also spike the pressure up due to the increased obfuscation of the bore due to the larger boolit. The boolit for .38 may be too long for the .380 case as well. I have heard of guys loading 115 bullets, even one guy (cant remember the recipe) that used Red Dot and 125gr lead, but still was a hot, a bit too hot for .380.

Also, second note, the powder has changed DRAMATICALLY since the 1970s. Your manual may be out of date. I have an old Speer manual from the 80s that almost comploded my old XD. Looking at it, compared to newer manuals, the pressure numbers and powder charges are vastly different.

Get a new manual, pull those bullets and get appropriate stuff for the task (dies included), this all is screaming disaster.

I know I'm doing something right when I get the "step away from the reloading press before you kill us all!" replies.

I'm not at all desperate for .380 ammo, I just like to experiment and see what can be done. I've learned a bunch of new stuff already so it must be working.

Sounds like this setup should be avoided, but it's neat to know that in a real pinch I might be able to rig something up that may or may not kill the user.

 

[Bisley Man]

Old Syko and Disposable Heart are right. Get the proper dies,bullets(.355, 80 to 100gr.) and CURRENT UP TO DATE DATA! Your safety and those around you when you reoad and shoot this ammo are too important!

 

[wolfman]

Also, second note, the powder has changed DRAMATICALLY since the 1970s. Your manual may be out of date. I have an old Speer manual from the 80s that almost comploded my old XD. Looking at it, compared to newer manuals, the pressure numbers and powder charges are vastly different.

Get a new manual, pull those bullets and get appropriate stuff for the task (dies included), this all is screaming disaster.

Yes powder has changed, and if using new powder, use new manual.

BUT, if using old powder, use an old manual that was written using the old powder to formulate the load data.

 

[Old Syko]

Yes powder has changed, and if using new powder, use new manual.

BUT, if using old powder, use an old manual that was written using the old powder to formulate the load data.

I agree to a point! I still use a lot of powders that aren't even known by younger reloaders and have little option but to study the old guides. Add in a goodly amount of common sense also and do your research. A lot of the old data was determined with the use of pressure signs that we now know to be completely unreliable, such as case web expansion. In the early days a lot of data was produced without the use of any type of pressure testing equipment at all. Not even copper crushers were used in the early days by most "experts."