Question from my girlfriend.

[blamecharles]

First odd if this is a dupe thread I'm sorry, I used search and couldn't find anything. OK my girlfriend had an incident where she was followed to her car and pestered through her window by a strange male in front of the Family Video on Madison and Edgewood. She doesn't carry yet but will be after Christmas. Her question was should she warn in a situation like this, for instance pull her weapon and tell BG to back away, she was able to back up but this guy was in the window pestering her. Any thoughts/code issues. I have informed her if she fears for her life or safety she can fire, I wasn't sure on the warning brandishing situation.

 

[SSGSAD]

AFAIK, no warning needed, make SURE she knows what she is doing ( not sexist, EVERYONE who pulls a gun, SHOULD KNOW )..... it could be taken away, and used on her .....

 

[mrortega]

First odd if this is a dupe thread I'm sorry, I used search and couldn't find anything. OK my girlfriend had an incident where she was followed to her car and pestered through her window by a strange male in front of the Family Video on Madison and Edgewood. She doesn't carry yet but will be after Christmas. Her question was should she warn in a situation like this, for instance pull her weapon and tell BG to back away, she was able to back up but this guy was in the window pestering her. Any thoughts/code issues. I have informed her if she fears for her life or safety she can fire, I wasn't sure on the warning brandishing situation.

There are many degrees of "fear." Your GF better be able to explain to a jury why her "fear" allowed her to shoot someon.

 

[blamecharles]

AFAIK, no warning needed, make SURE she knows what she is doing ( not sexist, EVERYONE who pulls a gun, SHOULD KNOW )..... it could be taken away, and used on her .....

She will be trained how to use it for sure.

There are many degrees of "fear." Your GF better be able to explain to a jury why her "fear" allowed her to shoot someon.

This was bordering on attempted kidnapping from the sounds of it.

 

[rockhopper46038]

There are many degrees of "fear." Your GF better be able to explain to a jury why her "fear" allowed her to shoot someone.

Exactly right. It's clear that in this case she was able to simply drive away. Roll up the window. If he had attempted to reach through the open window and grab the keys, or if he had tried to open the car door, then it becomes imminent physical threat, in my opinion. "Bothered by", "pestered by" or "offended by" isn't going to go over well.

 

[jsnowy]

Seems to me that pepper spray would be a better option for this scenario.

 

[cbseniour]

If she is in the car, windows up an the doors locked just drive away. If the bg gets his foot run over let him press charges the defend on the basis of self defense.
Never make a situation worse by over thinking, just do what is needed to secure your own safety. If you think it prudent call in a police report afterwards.

 

[blamecharles]

Seems to me that pepper spray would be a better option for this scenario.

If she is in the car, windows up an the doors locked just drive away. If the bg gets his foot run over let him press charges the defend on the basis of self defense.
Never make a situation worse by over thinking, just do what is needed to secure your own safety. If you think it prudent call in a police report afterwards.

This what I thought as well. I guess what I'm asking is: BG following her to car asking personal questions , saying come with me leaning into car(window already down summer day at the time) she has repeatedly said leave me alone, she then draws and says leave me the #$%& alone.

 

[jsnowy]

This what I thought as well. I guess what I'm asking is: BG following her to car asking personal questions , saying come with me leaning into car(window already down summer day at the time) she has repeatedly said leave me alone, she then draws and says leave me the #$%& alone.

Yep. Draw the pepper spray.

 

[mrortega]

This what I thought as well. I guess what I'm asking is: BG following her to car asking personal questions , saying come with me leaning into car(window already down summer day at the time) she has repeatedly said leave me alone, she then draws and says leave me the #$%& alone.

That sounds good. One more question: What type of pistol will she have? If it's something that has a very light trigger you might want to rethink whether she will have good enough control to not squeeze off a shot accidentely. A light trigger, such as a nicely tuned 1911, may be fine for target but not for SD.

 

[rotortech]

If you can leave, then leave. Problem solved. It is good to ask the question though because the more we think through various scenarios, the better we can handle them when the happen.

 

[Scutter01]

I think a better question is always "What action will de-escalate this situation?" Pulling a gun should be the last resort, but also shouldn't be a question if your life is in imminent danger.

 

[Denny347]

"pestering"...what does that entail? Too vague to draw any conclusions at this point. We cannot deal in generalities...must be VERY specific. "Pestering" could be asking for money or a lift...something lots of homeless do. Would you shoot and possibly kill a person for asking for money or a lift and nothing else? Now, in asking for a ride, the person demand you get out so he can take it...WHOLE DIFFERENT MATTER. Staying out of jail requires a person to articulate every detail possible.

 

[Shelly1582]

She was able to safely get in her vehicle and drive away, no weapon needed. But that is not to say it wouldn't be really nice to have one for next time. Having been in a similar situation but hiding in a friends car with no keys while multiple bg's attempted to get the car door open. I sure would like to have protection if ever in the situation again.

 

[blamecharles]

That sounds good. One more question: What type of pistol will she have? If it's something that has a very light trigger you might want to rethink whether she will have good enough control to not squeeze off a shot accidentely. A light trigger, such as a nicely tuned 1911, may be fine for target but not for SD.

Right now we are looking at s&w 38 special airweight.

If you can leave, then leave. Problem solved. It is good to ask the question though because the more we think through various scenarios, the better we can handle them when the happen.

This was more of what I was wanting was a what if type situation based off something that has happened.

"pestering"...what does that entail? Too vague to draw any conclusions at this point. We cannot deal in generalities...must be VERY specific. "Pestering" could be asking for money or a lift...something lots of homeless do. Would you shoot and possibly kill a person for asking for money or a lift and nothing else? Now, in asking for a ride, the person demand you get out so he can take it...WHOLE DIFFERENT MATTER. Staying out of jail requires a person to articulate every detail possible.

This guy was trying to get her to go with him but hadn't escalated it . She had pepperspray but it's on her keychain so I guess there is a lesson there.

 

[Denny347]

Right now we are looking at s&w 38 special airweight.

GREAT guns. I have a 642 that is my primary off-duty gun. They can be a handful to the shooter not used to them, shooting the +p or ball ammo. I installed an Apex Tactical spring kit in mine that reduced the trigger pull and smoothed it out a bit. Don't fall into that line of thinking that these guns are not accurate for anything with distance. Good trigger control and they are just as accurate at 50 yrds as my G22...with a short site radius it just takes a bit more skill.

 

[KG1]

GREAT guns. I have a 642 that is my primary off-duty gun. They can be a handful to the shooter not used to them, shooting the +p or ball ammo. I installed an Apex Tactical spring kit in mine that reduced the trigger pull and smoothed it out a bit. Don't fall into that line of thinking that these guns are not accurate for anything with distance. Good trigger control and they are just as accurate at 50 yrds as my G22...with a short site radius it just takes a bit more skill.

I can attest to this except I have a 442 model. I actually enjoy shooting it.

 

[canav844]

IMO she should not pull it unless she plans to use it; that's not to say sight of it won't send the guy running for the hills, but it's only worth adding lethal force to the equation when it can be used.

Now in the situation you described, could she have just as easily gone back into the store where there are people had them call 911, and increase the likelyhood of this guy getting removed for loitering or harassment, and decrease the likelyhood of him getting violent with other people around. Then if she was carrying and he did get violent she would still be able to justify actions, and put in the 911 call first being listed as the victim in this scenario.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).
(d) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person and does not have a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or stop the other person from hijacking, attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight. For purposes of this subsection, an aircraft is considered to be in flight while the aircraft is:
(1) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the doors of the aircraft are closed for takeoff; and (B) until the aircraft takes off;
(2) in the airspace above Indiana; or
(3) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the aircraft lands; and
(B) before the doors of the aircraft are opened after landing.
(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not justified in using force if:
(1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime;
(2) the person provokes unlawful action by another person with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action.
(f) Notwithstanding subsection (d), a person is not justified in using force if the person:
(1) is committing, or is escaping after the commission of, a crime;
(2) provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) continues to combat another person after the other person withdraws from the encounter and communicates the other person's intent to stop hijacking, attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.8; Acts 1979, P.L.297, SEC.1; P.L.59-2002, SEC.1; P.L.189-2006, SEC.1.

 

[blamecharles]

IMO she should not pull it unless she plans to use it; that's not to say sight of it won't send the guy running for the hills, but it's only worth adding lethal force to the equation when it can be used.

Now in the situation you described, could she have just as easily gone back into the store where there are people had them call 911, and increase the likelyhood of this guy getting removed for loitering or harassment, and decrease the likelyhood of him getting violent with other people around. Then if she was carrying and he did get violent she would still be able to justify actions, and put in the 911 call first being listed as the victim in this scenario.

He was at her window by the time he started she started to get scared, at first she thought he wouldn't follow her. Then he was leaning in the windows with both hands on the bottom of the window jamb. It has been a learning experience as we have reevaluated her pepper spray setup. This may help someone else as my gf had her car key and pepperspray on the same ring, now I have separate them to different ends of a quick connect coupler. This will allow her to start the car and still have the pepperspray available.

 

[thompal]

Now in the situation you described, could she have just as easily gone back into the store where there are people had them call 911, and increase the likelyhood of this guy getting removed for loitering or harassment, and decrease the likelyhood of him getting violent with other people around. Then if she was carrying and he did get violent she would still be able to justify actions, and put in the 911 call first being listed as the victim in this scenario.

I've got to STRONGLY disagree with this!! The LAST thing she should do is get out of the car to go inside. Inside the car, she has an advantage: locked doors, windows, and a car that will get her away no matter if the guy is blocking the way or not. Once she gets out of the car, it is a sheer physical one-on-one struggle, and she will likely not win unless she is prepared to be ruthless and violent, but why bring things to that point. STAY IN THE CAR!!!! Lay on the horn. Scream. Flash the lights. Rev the engine. All in the relative safety of that steel cocoon. If he breaks a window to try to get her, throw it in gear and floor it.

NEVER get out of the car in a situation like this!!!!!