Prepping for Urban Survival

[Thor]

I'm not leaving my library, my stores, my guns and ammo. There will be a lot of bodies before I go. Then again I'm not urban so much as suburban and have a few acres to play with. Even so, I'm not running; I'm fighting.

Also, if you're thinking about a bug out bag and you're not thinking 75lb or greater you're way light.

 

[gassprint1]

I'm not leaving my library, my stores, my guns and ammo. There will be a lot of bodies before I go. Then again I'm not urban so much as suburban and have a few acres to play with. Even so, I'm not running; I'm fighting.

Also, if you're thinking about a bug out bag and you're not thinking 75lb or greater you're way light.

Well, with where you are, doesnt sound as if you are in very tight quarters and need to find a safe place.

 

[JTKelly]

You know it's bad when your new leader is named "barbecue".

And he is the head cannable. They ate mud cookies in Haiti for YEARS and now they are eating each other.

I don't think it would take a month for Indianapolis to fall that far.

 

[JTKelly]

... and THESE are the "good guys" now there are no police. Do you think you are TRUELY prepared for SHTF, because you ain't seen nuthin yet.

Vigilantes set gang members on fire & cut victims’ hands off in Haiti

HAITI is on the brink of collapse as armed gangs lay siege to the capital – but a grisly group of vengeful locals are fighting back. Port-au-Prince, a city dubbed the “most dangerous on…

www.the-sun.com

 

[1nderbeard]

Discretion is more important that you think. Get (or make) a supressor and concealable weapons.

 

[Tomahawkman]

A lot of good points being brought up here a couple things I could add

If you are not planning to immediately abandon your residence and get out of the urban area. Things I would be prepping or having a plan for:

Food: having as much as you can on hand to delay your need to leave your residence for as long as possible especially during the initial breakdown avoids putting yourself at risk unnecessarily.

Water: if you see things going south ahead of time like on the news, out your window etc. Id be filling every water container I could while the grids still up and the water is clean, like the bathtub and what not. Having a water key would be good too for the inevitable need to head out a get more water. Despite loss of power there should be plenty of water charged in lines around the city that can be accessed with the right tools. On that note the more water you can bring back per trip the less you have to leave the safety of your home. I have an alice pack frame with a cargo shelf and several scepter 5 gallon water jugs. You can strap one to the frame and carry it like a pack. 5 Gallons at a time on foot more it you have a vehicle. If you aren't following Cana Provisions id look at their social media for all things water gathering/purification.

Security: If your staying put and you think your structure could be target for looting or general mischief, take steps to make it a harder target. You'll want to be able to defend your home from outside threats.

And the above comment about discretion is a good one. If you have a gun, get a suppressor no matter if its a handgun or rifle or pdw. If your out and about and things go sideways a suppressed gun shot 2 blocks over from a group of looters, fallout 3 raiders or UN troops may still be heard but it might not sound like a gunshot and its going to be a lot harder to pin point your position allowing you some extra time to vacate the area before inquiring folks come looking. To add to this, if Night vision is within reach financially also consider that. A lot of your movement can and should be done under cover of darkness and being able to navigate without the use of white light is extremely important. It would also be beneficial in the security of your residence, if you have a generator going with lights on while everything else is dark around you, you may be drawing un needed attention.

Dont plan on help from any government agency because if have learned anything from the last several years the ability of the government, federal, state or local, to be of any use in such situations is steadily declining.

 

[XDdreams]

A lot of good points being brought up here a couple things I could add

If you are not planning to immediately abandon your residence and get out of the urban area. Things I would be prepping or having a plan for:

Food: having as much as you can on hand to delay your need to leave your residence for as long as possible especially during the initial breakdown avoids putting yourself at risk unnecessarily.

Water: if you see things going south ahead of time like on the news, out your window etc. Id be filling every water container I could while the grids still up and the water is clean, like the bathtub and what not. Having a water key would be good too for the inevitable need to head out a get more water. Despite loss of power there should be plenty of water charged in lines around the city that can be accessed with the right tools. On that note the more water you can bring back per trip the less you have to leave the safety of your home. I have an alice pack frame with a cargo shelf and several scepter 5 gallon water jugs. You can strap one to the frame and carry it like a pack. 5 Gallons at a time on foot more it you have a vehicle. If you aren't following Cana Provisions id look at their social media for all things water gathering/purification.

Security: If your staying put and you think your structure could be target for looting or general mischief, take steps to make it a harder target. You'll want to be able to defend your home from outside threats.

And the above comment about discretion is a good one. If you have a gun, get a suppressor no matter if its a handgun or rifle or pdw. If your out and about and things go sideways a suppressed gun shot 2 blocks over from a group of looters, fallout 3 raiders or UN troops may still be heard but it might not sound like a gunshot and its going to be a lot harder to pin point your position allowing you some extra time to vacate the area before inquiring folks come looking. To add to this, if Night vision is within reach financially also consider that. A lot of your movement can and should be done under cover of darkness and being able to navigate without the use of white light is extremely important. It would also be beneficial in the security of your residence, if you have a generator going with lights on while everything else is dark around you, you may be drawing un needed attention.

Dont plan on help from any government agency because if have learned anything from the last several years the ability of the government, federal, state or local, to be of any use in such situations is steadily declining.

What is your opinion on "budget" night vision such as the NVG 30 or Nightfox Prowl? Is it better to have some capability in the short term (albeit limited) rather than nothing at all, or should one just save for the real deal?

 

[Tomahawkman]

What is your opinion on "budget" night vision such as the NVG 30 or Nightfox Prowl? Is it better to have some capability in the short term (albeit limited) rather than nothing at all, or should one just save for the real deal?

Digital Nightvision is getting better but I dont think its there yet for something like a helmet mounted option for navigation or use with a firearm due to the "lag". Digital night vision also really needs supplemental IR light to perform in dark environments where analog doesn't. If giving off IR light is not a concern for you then I think digital options are decent for static viewing.

That being said PVS-7s aren't quite as bad as people say they are and can be had for 1200 if you look hard enough. PVS14s can be had for under 2k with omni contract tubes if you hit the buy/sell Facebook groups, they do pop up from time to time. I think holding out for a low end analog device like the 7 or 14 is the best "budget" option in the long run. I don't think the digital budget options are worth it over saving a little more or selling off un-used gear to make up the difference.

 

[Tomahawkman]

What is your opinion on "budget" night vision such as the NVG 30 or Nightfox Prowl? Is it better to have some capability in the short term (albeit limited) rather than nothing at all, or should one just save for the real deal?

alternatively you can go on ebay, buy a pvs 14 parts kit for about 700 and then hit facebook NV groups. Ive seen omni tubes with some nasty blems but totally useable sell for 700-800.

 

[Ziggidy]

What about good SHTF GMRS radios? Any recommendations?

 

[XDdreams]

alternatively you can go on ebay, buy a pvs 14 parts kit for about 700 and then hit facebook NV groups. Ive seen omni tubes with some nasty blems but totally useable sell for 700-800.

Thank you for taking the time and giving a thoughtful answer. Saving for analog is the plan.

 

[Tomahawkman]

What about good SHTF GMRS radios? Any recommendations?

The baoefeng UV5R can transmit on GMRS channels and you can buy a GMRS band specific antenna for them from nagoya that does pretty well. Obviously against the FCCs wishes but you said SHTF. Cant beat them for the price if your trying to outfit multiple people.

 

[smokingman]

Some observations I've made from being stuck in the hood:

-Water is a big problem. Nobody has wells. Nearest surface water is five blocks away. Purification is still important but dealing with no water service is gonna be a huge suck.

-No wood fires. No wood, really, unless you take buildings apart. Prioritize ready to eat food or expect to stack a lot of gas bottles.

-Lots of shelter, so it might not be necessary to tote a whole wilderness camp setup around when most of the time you can probably find somewhere out of the wind and rain.

-City is dark as hell without electricity. Even in the daylight, you're only a doorway away from full dark. You need lights and ideally NV.

-Pistols, PCCs, PDWs, and concealed vests are probably more useful than rifles. Observe that the bangers prefer concealable weapons that deliver volume of fire and deploy quick. Your best defense is concealment of your offense.

-Bikes are handy, quiet, and common. Most people don't look twice at a guy on a bike. In congested streets you'd be surprised how fast you can cover ground on two wheels.

Sanitation will probably kill more in the cities than bullets. It will not take long for all water sources above ground to become sewers. When 500k+ people need to drink and crap and it does not go anywhere....yea.
That alone is a reason to get out, and far out. My septic does not need power, just water and with a well and creek on my property water is one thing I have few worries about(worst case I walk half a mile north through woods to a small lake).
Unless you are a predator(of other humans)that can organize I doubt anyone survives long in a city. If disease does not kill them, lack of resources does not kill them, likely other humans will.

 

[Ingomike]

Bikes are handy, quiet, and common. Most people don't look twice at a guy on a bike. In congested streets you'd be surprised how fast you can cover ground on two wheels.

I was told explicitly, that bikes were toys, on INGO…

 

[JTKelly]

Sanitation will probably kill more in the cities than bullets. It will not take long for all water sources above ground to become sewers. When 500k+ people need to drink and crap and it does not go anywhere....yea.
That alone is a reason to get out, and far out. My septic does not need power, just water and with a well and creek on my property water is one thing I have few worries about(worst case I walk half a mile north through woods to a small lake).
Unless you are a predator(of other humans)that can organize I doubt anyone survives long in a city. If disease does not kill them, lack of resources does not kill them, likely other humans will.

Well it hasn't killed them ALL in Haiti yet.

 

[smokingman]

Well it hasn't killed them ALL in Haiti yet.

Forty percent of the Haitian population is under 15 years old, and only 5% is over 65. Median age of 22(up from 19 in 1998). 219 murders per 100k(2023).

They still have electricity. Most systems still function. The taps still have water,septic systems work. They may be in a civil war but most things still function.

The disaster I am talking about is a lack of electricity. That happens and cities are disease death traps and almost unsurvivable.

 

[Magyars]

Not sure where to best post this.
Interesting article.

As Ukrainian Defenses Collapse, What Can US Patriots Learn From The Conflict? - Alt-Market.us

By Brandon Smith In my article ‘Russia Is About To Overrun Ukraine’s Defenses – Why Are There No Peace Negotiations’...

alt-market.us

 

[Ark]

Not sure where to best post this.
Interesting article.

As Ukrainian Defenses Collapse, What Can US Patriots Learn From The Conflict? - Alt-Market.us

By Brandon Smith In my article ‘Russia Is About To Overrun Ukraine’s Defenses – Why Are There No Peace Negotiations’...

alt-market.us

Saw this one pop up on ZH a day or two ago and thought about posting it.

I don't agree with all of the conclusions. The characterization of US maneuver warfare as a kind of glass hammer that only works as long as it's not getting hit too hard still hasn't been proven out in the real world, because Ukraine and Russia are both "second world" countries steeped in Soviet military doctrine and Ukraine's quickie training and gearing up by US advisors wasn't enough to crack that.

Drones becoming as important or possibly more important than your ability to put rounds on target, absolutely. Much as a civilian preparedness group divides up responsibilities for night vision and thermal, they need to acquire offensive, recon, and counter-drone capabilities. Personally I think air-to-air drones will turn out to be the most cost effective counter for civilians to employ, with simple low-tech solutions like deployable nets or ensnaring devices.

The relevance of infantry and the guerilla are absolutely valid and Ukraine has proven beyond a doubt that infantry remains the workhorse of both low and high intensity conflict. With more ubiquitous ISR, high speed movement in small groups and the ability to rapidly ditch gear and blend back in to terrain or civilian populations will be essential, as will the ability to coordinate those groups to arrive on a target at the same time and then disperse before the enemy's support can arrive. Unfortunately, this means that if you are the unlucky group caught in your thin skinned vehicle or on your motorcycle, you're drone bait.

Warfare certainly hasn't gotten any more fun. We haven't even seen the real nightmare yet, which is IMO the integration of loitering munitions with basic visual recognition AI and the deletion of humans from the decision loop altogether due to jamming concerns. Loitering munitions are simply assigned a grid square to patrol and dive bomb anything the computer recognizes as a human with a pack, a weapon, in a restricted area, in a group of more than two people, outside after restricted hours, etc etc. Whatever parameters they feel like programming. If no targets present, they just select a set of coordinates to hit as a harassment target when fuel runs out. The ways to die are multiplying.

 

[cosermann]

There's no one-size-fits-all "prep" - too many variables. Covering one's bases, to the level one can, given one's resources is about the best one can do. There will be a fair amount of adaptation that will be required if/when an incident occurs. It's the idea that "no plan survives contact with the enemy." Even good plans will need adjustments.

For insight into urban survival in a worst case scenario context, the Siege of Sarajevo might provide some insights. Selco Begovic has posted a fair bit about his experience during the siege in various places online.

Neither urban or rural is best in an absolute sense. Depends on the circumstances. For example, isolated rural folks in Argentina were more exposed to attack by roving gangs than those who had neighbors nearer for support (as were/are white rural farmers in South Africa, etc.). Mel Tappan (so this isn't a new idea) also recognized some of the disadvantages of isolated homesteads, and advocated for small rural-ish towns.Urban areas have their own disadvantages/advantages.

Flexibility and adaptability will be key - regardless of prior preps, or urban/rural location.

 

[KomboJoe]

I'm not leaving my library, my stores, my guns and ammo. There will be a lot of bodies before I go. Then again I'm not urban so much as suburban and have a few acres to play with. Even so, I'm not running; I'm fighting.

Also, if you're thinking about a bug out bag and you're not thinking 75lb or greater you're way light.

75 lbs is way too much. I've got mine down to 45 lbs with more than 5 days of food. It can be done.