Plumbers / Electricians -- Hot Water Heater ??

[woowoo2]

Couple of tips: A 1-1/2 " socket on a breaker bar works a lot better than those element tools sold in stores. A 1/2 " piece of copper pipe, pounded flat, works as a calcium removal tool. If it is really loaded with calcium, you can put in a smaller element, it will last longer. ( Just did this Saturday for the older sister)

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

In case you don't know, only one element works at a time. Most are 4500 watts divided by 220 volts which gives you about 20.5 amps ergo the 30 amp breaker. The top element only comes on as the water at the top of the unit becomes cool as a last ditch effort to keep you in hot water. As soon as the top half of the tank is up to temp it switches to the lower element to finish the bottom portion. Since the fill tube goes all the way to the bottom, you are always bringing the cold water in low and hot water out the top.

Having said all of that, if your water is already cool and you reset the breaker then you are on the top element. If it heats at all then it is not burned out as that is an open where no current can flow...ie no heat, but no tripped breaker. If the breaker trips fast then you have a shorted element.

Since you are taking a while to trip you probably have an element about to go open. Basically the resistance of the element has become high enough that the current rises and trips the breaker. I feel pretty certain that replacing the top element will solve the immediate issue.

I don't think this is what you meant to say. V=IR --> I=(V/R). For a given voltage, the only way for the current to increase is to decrease the resistance. Besides, the OP stated above, according to his resistance readings, the bottom element was showing 1.8 ohms and his top element is at 12.5 ohms. At those readings, we could expect the current readings to be approximately 122 A and 18 A respectively. If his readings are correct, the bottom element is indeed bad and is causing the breaker to trip. If one were so inclined, you could look up that breaker's trip curve. With that you would be able to estimate the time it would take the breaker to trip at that 122A current.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Ohm's. It's the law.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Ohm's. It's the law.

Que the resistance is futile pictures.

 

[sig-guy]

Turn Breaker off. Drain tank. Remove lower element. Wet vac out as much lime as you can. Install new element/s (if you do both).
Refill tank with a faucet open on the "hot" side, to bleed air out of the system. Once the tank is full, check for leaks, and then turn the breaker back on.
There, I made it sound easy.

Call a service tech... that sounds easier!

 

[LtScott14]

The service tech usually charges a trip charge and a minimum call. Like $50.00/$ 90.00 add parts at $80.00 and your call could be around $300.00. Learn to make a plumber/handy guy friend, go shooting, lunch, do it yourself. Get parts from a big box store, done for $60.00. U tube the repair.

 

[CZB1962]

I don't think this is what you meant to say. V=IR --> I=(V/R). For a given voltage, the only way for the current to increase is to decrease the resistance. Besides, the OP stated above, according to his resistance readings, the bottom element was showing 1.8 ohms and his top element is at 12.5 ohms. At those readings, we could expect the current readings to be approximately 122 A and 18 A respectively. If his readings are correct, the bottom element is indeed bad and is causing the breaker to trip. If one were so inclined, you could look up that breaker's trip curve. With that you would be able to estimate the time it would take the breaker to trip at that 122A current.

You are absolutely correct. I meant to say that the resistance became low enough to trip the breaker. I had not seen the post where he had the resistance readings so based on that, it sounds like the top element is working and it trips when it eventually switches to the lower element.

I guess I need to read the whole thread before I open my mouth.....Or stop working so many crazy hours and get some sleep.

 

[w_ADAM_d88]

Ok... Thanks for all the posts.

So I tackled this project yesterday on my own, after a phone call to a buddy who has a lot of experience in this field. Once I figured out which element was bad (checking the ohms using meter), I cut off electricity to the HWH and then cut off all water coming in and going out of the HWH. Once cooled off (2 hours is what I gave it) I hooked up the hose to the bottom drain valve and let her rip. As it started draining I opened the safety valve on top, and then went inside and turned on a few faucets to bleed out any water there. While it drained I ran to the hardware store and picked up a new element ($20) and a element wrench ($8), and by the time I got back the water had stopped so I figured I was good to go. (This is where it got fun)

So in theory all the water and pressure should have been out of the tank... WRONG! So I start taking the element out, break it loose with the wrench, and start un-threading it and backing it out when all of a sudden I am soaked! Yep a S*** Ton of water came flying out from behind the element, so quickly I threaded the element back in so that the gusher would stop. WTF!! Check the drain hose... nothing, then make sure the drain is still open and water is off... which it was. So I broke out the shop vac, and had it on the ready... started backing the element back out slowly with the shop vac turned on to catch the water. Finally once the water stopped, and I got the element out I realized that there was so much lime and sediment build up that it was blocking the water between the bottom element and the drain at the bottom of the tank.

My solution to that was... I rigged up some rubber hose and made an attachment to my shop vac and sucked out as much sediment and gunk that I could through the opening where the element went. Once I got as much as I could out that way, I reinstalled the new element then cut the water to the tank back on to try and flush more sediment out of the bottom drain. Cut all the water back on, purged the lines inside the house, closed the drain and the safety valve, and once the tank was full cut the power back on. Problem solved and the wife was happy she was able to take a HOT shower this morning. Happy Wife = Happy Life!

 

[churchmouse]

It is usually calcium build up that burns out the bottom element. As I stated in my earlier post....beware.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Would adding a vibration motor to the elements help prevent lime buildup, or would that just cause cavitation around the elements that would sabotage the heat transfer to the water?

 

[churchmouse]

Would adding a vibration motor to the elements help prevent lime buildup, or would that just cause cavitation around the elements that would sabotage the heat transfer to the water?

Replacing the anode and regularly draining the tank will solve the problem.

 

[.356luger]

nothing to add here just trying to hit 50 post

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Ok... Thanks for all the posts.

So I tackled this project yesterday on my own, after a phone call to a buddy who has a lot of experience in this field. Once I figured out which element was bad (checking the ohms using meter), I cut off electricity to the HWH and then cut off all water coming in and going out of the HWH. Once cooled off (2 hours is what I gave it) I hooked up the hose to the bottom drain valve and let her rip. As it started draining I opened the safety valve on top, and then went inside and turned on a few faucets to bleed out any water there. While it drained I ran to the hardware store and picked up a new element ($20) and a element wrench ($8), and by the time I got back the water had stopped so I figured I was good to go. (This is where it got fun)

So in theory all the water and pressure should have been out of the tank... WRONG! So I start taking the element out, break it loose with the wrench, and start un-threading it and backing it out when all of a sudden I am soaked! Yep a S*** Ton of water came flying out from behind the element, so quickly I threaded the element back in so that the gusher would stop. WTF!! Check the drain hose... nothing, then make sure the drain is still open and water is off... which it was. So I broke out the shop vac, and had it on the ready... started backing the element back out slowly with the shop vac turned on to catch the water. Finally once the water stopped, and I got the element out I realized that there was so much lime and sediment build up that it was blocking the water between the bottom element and the drain at the bottom of the tank.

My solution to that was... I rigged up some rubber hose and made an attachment to my shop vac and sucked out as much sediment and gunk that I could through the opening where the element went. Once I got as much as I could out that way, I reinstalled the new element then cut the water to the tank back on to try and flush more sediment out of the bottom drain. Cut all the water back on, purged the lines inside the house, closed the drain and the safety valve, and once the tank was full cut the power back on. Problem solved and the wife was happy she was able to take a HOT shower this morning. Happy Wife = Happy Life!

Been there, done that. And now that I think about it, shame on me for not warning you!

I typically have to take the drain valve apart as well because some of that crud usually stays behind and keeps the drain valve from shutting off all the way. And that hose/shop vac thing is what I do as well. How did you manage to get the stuff that is setting on the element sid of the tank? That's always the hardest to get out.

 

[223 Gunner]

I'm sure it was cheaper than calling someone. And now you know how to do it. Good job!

 

[w_ADAM_d88]

Been there, done that. And now that I think about it, shame on me for not warning you!

I typically have to take the drain valve apart as well because some of that crud usually stays behind and keeps the drain valve from shutting off all the way. And that hose/shop vac thing is what I do as well. How did you manage to get the stuff that is setting on the element sid of the tank? That's always the hardest to get out.

I probably didn't get it all. I got all that I could with the contraption that I built and flushed as much sediment out that was willing to come out. I'm sure there is more in there, but hey at least we have hot water for the time being, and plus it only set me back about $30.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I probably didn't get it all. I got all that I could with the contraption that I built and flushed as much sediment out that was willing to come out. I'm sure there is more in there, but hey at least we have hot water for the time being, and plus it only set me back about $30.

You should be good for another 3.5 years.

 

[ultra...good]

I have to add that my family has a lake house where the water heater is drained every fall. The last water heater was the original and was installed in the mid 1960's and the tank lasted until the mid 1990's. There were only 2 elements replaced in that entire time. Compared to a water heater that was never drained and the tank lasted 15 years and elements lasted about 3-4 years. Both tanks were running well water within 15 miles of each other. Only difference is that the one was drained every year and lasted 30 years, compared to never drained and lasting 15 years.