Plumbers / Electricians -- Hot Water Heater ??

[w_ADAM_d88]

So the wife woke me up this morning letting me know we had no hot water (it was lukewarm). So after investigation I found out that the breaker to the HWH had been tripped. I reset the breaker, and told her to wait a little while so that the water could heat back up. 40 minutes later (30 minutes of waiting) my wife hollers out from the tub that the water is cool again. Come to find out... breaker tripped again. We have a 50 gallon Bradford White electric HWH, that is only about 3.5 years old. We have had no issues until this morning, when all of a sudden it starts tripping the breaker. SO INGO... What is the problem??

 

[SEIndSAM]

Probably a burnt out element. Not hard to swap out, but pay the money for a cheap element wrench.

 

[88GT]

Just remember to fill it back up!

 

[Whitsettd8]

Do you have a multi-meter and any kind of electric measuring device?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Why do you need to heat hot water?

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

In fact, it's probably not a burned out element, just one or both are so snotted up with lime that the water can't take the heat out of them and they overheat. A burned out element would present as an open load and not pop the breaker. You may be able to save the elements by soaking them in vinegar, but definitely drain the tank and fill it before you power it up, whether with new elements or recovered ones. The elements will be accessible from two small covers in the side of the tank.

 

[w_ADAM_d88]

So I broke out the multimeter and did an ohms check on the elements. Top one measured in range at 12.5 and the bottom one did not register hardly at all (1.8). So it looks like my bottom element is bad. Now the fun begins.

 

[LtScott14]

If you drain the tank, you may want to change both elements. Not that much, maybe get another 3-4 yrs without a service call. Shut off the breaker, prolly 220v. before working on!

 

[Huntinfool]

If its tripping breaker immediately it's probably a lower element. If it stays on for a little while, it probably not the heater. Might be a breaker issue.

 

[remauto1187]

In fact, it's probably not a burned out element, just one or both are so snotted up with lime that the water can't take the heat out of them and they overheat. A burned out element would present as an open load and not pop the breaker. You may be able to save the elements by soaking them in vinegar, but definitely drain the tank and fill it before you power it up, whether with new elements or recovered ones. The elements will be accessible from two small covers in the side of the tank.

Unless the water pipes are metal and somehow tied to earth ground. (Should not be) Then a burnt open element is flowing current into the water to earth ground drawing infinite amount of current which trips the breaker in microseconds. Could also be getting earth ground off the brass water meter housing which then would represent a load instead of a dead short to ground and in that case is truly dangerous since all faucets in the home are now electrified.

This is one of the reasons there are electrical codes to follow.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Unless the water pipes are metal and somehow tied to earth ground. (Should not be) Then a burnt open element is flowing current into the water to earth ground drawing infinite amount of current which trips the breaker in microseconds. Could also be getting earth ground off the brass water meter housing which then would represent a load instead of a dead short to ground and in that case is truly dangerous since all faucets in the home are now electrified.

This is one of the reasons there are electrical codes to follow.

Well, if you have one physically blown open, yeah, but they're designed not to do that. My plumbing's all metal and therefore grounded, so the breaker would blow; microseconds is a bit optimistic, but neither here nor there. It's the grounding of the plumbing that protects us from this, but many don't appreciate being between the electricity and the ground. My son lost his mother and I my wife this way. It was a light fixture thing. Now, I have had elements caked with lime. The elements require water to draw heat from them, or else they overheat. Lime prevents this. Bad juju. It will most likely happen first with the lower element.

 

[churchmouse]

If you pull out the bottom element and it (the water heater) is full of lime you are in a bit of trouble.

 

[223 Gunner]

Turn Breaker off. Drain tank. Remove lower element. Wet vac out as much lime as you can. Install new element/s (if you do both).
Refill tank with a faucet open on the "hot" side, to bleed air out of the system. Once the tank is full, check for leaks, and then turn the breaker back on.
There, I made it sound easy.

 

[churchmouse]

Turn Breaker off. Drain tank. Remove lower element. Wet vac out as much lime as you can. Install new element/s (if you do both).
Refill tank with a faucet open on the "hot" side, to bleed air out of the system. Once the tank is full, check for leaks, and then turn the breaker back on.
There, I made it sound easy.

Why yes, yes you did.

 

[Huntinfool]

As easy as you made it sound, you should charge more.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Turn Breaker off. Drain tank. Remove lower element. Wet vac out as much lime as you can. Install new element/s (if you do both).
Refill tank with a faucet open on the "hot" side, to bleed air out of the system. Once the tank is full, check for leaks, and then turn the breaker back on.
There, I made it sound easy.

You certainly did

I've had to do this to mine and getting the water out of a water heater filled up to the lower element with lime is a not-so-easy task.

 

[PistolBob]

I'd just put in a new water heater...

 

[remauto1187]

Well, if you have one physically blown open, yeah, but they're designed not to do that. My plumbing's all metal and therefore grounded, so the breaker would blow; microseconds is a bit optimistic, but neither here nor there. It's the grounding of the plumbing that protects us from this, but many don't appreciate being between the electricity and the ground. My son lost his mother and I my wife this way. It was a light fixture thing. Now, I have had elements caked with lime. The elements require water to draw heat from them, or else they overheat. Lime prevents this. Bad juju. It will most likely happen first with the lower element.

The response time for a short circuit depends on the breaker series and the manufacturer and what class it is in (3 phase, single phase) and even 50hz or 60hz matters as well. Typical response time is 75-100ms which is 75000-100,000 microseconds. So its relatively fast...its well less than a 1/4 of a second. I use to calibrate the machine that tests the breakers after they were manufactured and then sent out the door to consumers for Eaton Cutler Hammer at the LIncoln, IL plant. The room was full of a bunch of old ladies that made them until one day it was decided by corporate to send it all to Puerto Rico. I personally disconnected all the machines from their power and palletized the machinery and hunted up all the user/owner manuals and saw them loaded onto semis to be delivered to a boat on its way to Puerto Rico.

 

[Relaxed]

ELECTRICIAN here: The absolute first and easiest thing to do is to determine that the water heater is in fact the problem and that you don't have a wiring issue. With the breaker off, disconnect the joints at the top of the water heater and cap them off. Now turn the breaker back on. If the breaker trips with the water heater disconnected from the circuit you obviously don't need to bother with changing elements. If the breaker holds with it disconnected. I also would suspect the elements. The metering you've done should tell you which one to replace. Might be worth it to replace both, depending on how seized they are and how handy you are. Good luck!

 

[CZB1962]

In case you don't know, only one element works at a time. Most are 4500 watts divided by 220 volts which gives you about 20.5 amps ergo the 30 amp breaker. The top element only comes on as the water at the top of the unit becomes cool as a last ditch effort to keep you in hot water. As soon as the top half of the tank is up to temp it switches to the lower element to finish the bottom portion. Since the fill tube goes all the way to the bottom, you are always bringing the cold water in low and hot water out the top.

Having said all of that, if your water is already cool and you reset the breaker then you are on the top element. If it heats at all then it is not burned out as that is an open where no current can flow...ie no heat, but no tripped breaker. If the breaker trips fast then you have a shorted element.

Since you are taking a while to trip you probably have an element about to go open. Basically the resistance of the element has become high enough that the current rises and trips the breaker. I feel pretty certain that replacing the top element will solve the immediate issue.