Peru police tase Alzheimer patient

[Mackey]

The first problem here is the staff calling police and an ambulance. Increased aggression and combativeness is part of the progression of Alzheimer's. If you as a staff, on a locked Alzheimer's unit cannot handle it then you shouldn't accept the patients to begin with. Or here is a good idea, instead of calling the cops, how about 5mg of Versed IM and four point restraints and call it a day.

Poor NH care is to blame for this.

^THIS is totally correct.

 

[edporch]

"... According to police reports, two officers entered Howard's room in the locked-down Alzheimer's unit and told him to enter the ambulance.
Howard did not respond to their commands and become uncooperative, according to police. ..."


Yea, that really makes sense. (NOT!)


"Uncooperative"?
A 64 year old man with advanced Alzheimers likely is unable to even process a verbal command.


So let me make sure I have this straight....


We're gonna tell a man who can't process verbal command to do something.


Then we're gonna use a PAINFUL coercive torture device to make him COMPLY with something he doesn't understand that we're even telling him to do....


That ISN'T law enforcement, that's simply sadistic torture.




This IS a case where if they have ANY compassion for this man, they needed to get 2 or 3 officers and just physically pick him up and move him where he needs to be, in as gentle a way as can be accomplished under the circumstances.

I see crap like this, and it makes me frightened of the day when I get old and may lose my faculties.

 

[strahd71]

lets see dementia patients in general.......... yea their aggressive a lot not all of them of course but many are.... violent incoherent kinda seems like this is what you are preparing the locked unit for along with preventing them escaping and getting lost.

cops demanding a guy who has severe Alzheimers to follow commands........ ummm hello he's got alzheimers! he isnt resisting arrest he doesnt have a clue, armed strangers are yelling at him and he doesnt understand what they want.

why was there not a standing order for a PRN? institutions have them for everything else? would it not be prudent to have a IM PRN?

why was the facility MD not called for said order if need be?

having done a ton of take downs and restraints if they needed to call the police for help, why didnt they along with staff just physically take him down let him struggle for a bit and then nicely cuff him if need be when he was worn out?

this patient should not have been handcuffed with handcuffs! the facility should have had restraints available that would have acted like handcuffs but are much safer for the patient these restraints are usually either a cloth and leather mix or thick and wide rubber shackle with adjustable straps so you can use them on either legs or hands and are just much more humane.

cops arent behavior health techs i understand this but someone in the facility should have taken care of this cause once you call they take over. cops get called they take care of the problem, but an alzheimer patient isnt a criminal and should not be bounced around like some gang banging thug.

i will fault the facility before the cops but all involved are ultimately guilty in this. this could have been dealt with in house in a five minutes.

douche baggery!

jake

 

[Gabriel]

How did police ever do their jobs before the taser came along?

We fought them, which usually led to a lot more injuries. I've stopped many a fight with a taser that lessened the chances of injury to the suspect and officers. I've also fought with more than a few people, many of which ended up in the hospital...and one that died (before he got to the hospital).

Police work isn't pretty. Most people that don't do this job don't realize what a great tool the taser really is. I've seen it save many a life.

+1 The story was written for sensationalist effect. Unless you've spent time in nursing homes, especially on a dementia lock-down floor, just accept that this is yet another media sensationalized story written to incite for profit.

From what we have been given, the cops did nothing wrong.

I agree.

I also agree with the fact that this is the fault of the nursing home. If you start a company that takes care of elderly people with dementia, you should at least be able to deal with them.

 

[strahd71]

exactly!

jake

 

[shibumiseeker]

If you start a company that takes care of elderly people with dementia, you should at least be able to deal with them.

Yeah, that would be how a company that takes care of the elderly would deal with it. But they are a company that uses the elderly to milk the system, so from that standpoint they did pretty good.

 

[rmabrey]

why was the facility MD not called for said order if need be?

Because that facility MD, is also the MD for every nursing home within Fifteen miles. He is busy and wont return a phone call till hours later. Even then he isnt familiar with the patients condition so his answer is going to be "send them to the ER". All he is there or is to collect a paycheck

 

[strahd71]

Because that facility MD, is also the MD for every nursing home within Fifteen miles. He is busy and wont return a phone call till hours later. Even then he isnt familiar with the patients condition so his answer is going to be "send them to the ER". All he is there or is to collect a paycheck

wonder how they get passed state surveys then?

not saying your wrong at all it prolly is as u say but i would think there would be things that would come up in surveys

jake

 

[rmabrey]

wonder how they get passed state surveys then?

not saying your wrong at all it prolly is as u say but i would think there would be things that would come up in surveys

jake

I dont know how they get passed them but I can tell you the MD for a majority of the nursing homes in and around Evansville will be one of two doctors and they are married to each other

 

[strahd71]

I dont know how they get passed them but I can tell you the MD for a majority of the nursing homes in and around Evansville will be one of two doctors and they are married to each other

well they got a nice scam going!

thats a shame and a serious crack in the system, i can only imagine as the boomers get older and the system gets even more flooded how bad its going to get.

jake

 

[Hookeye]

Solved

 

[Benny]

How do you guys recommend subduing a violent incoherent person otherwise?

(See below) A taser should probably be a very last resort, IMO...I don't think the police should have been called in the first place, but since they were called, they should have brought enough to subdue him while a nurse gives him a sedative.

The first problem here is the staff calling police and an ambulance. Increased aggression and combativeness is part of the progression of Alzheimer's. If you as a staff, on a locked Alzheimer's unit cannot handle it then you shouldn't accept the patients to begin with. Or here is a good idea, instead of calling the cops, how about 5mg of Versed IM and four point restraints and call it a day.

Poor NH care is to blame for this.

A huge +1 here.

 

[j706]

It is apparent that many posters on here have never dealt with a person with mental disorders. They are very strong and unpredictable. The article was quite slanted to gain sympathy for the old guy. All things considered the Tazer is a acceptable tool for that type of situation. It is a much safer option than fighting the guy. That is one of the reasons the Tazer is so low on the use of force continuum. The officers did not do anything wrong based on the limited amount of slanted information in the article. Not quite sure what is up with the suspension.

 

[hoosierdoc]

The first problem here is the staff calling police and an ambulance. Increased aggression and combativeness is part of the progression of Alzheimer's. If you as a staff, on a locked Alzheimer's unit cannot handle it then you shouldn't accept the patients to begin with. Or here is a good idea, instead of calling the cops, how about 5mg of Versed IM and four point restraints and call it a day.

Poor NH care is to blame for this.

A "locked down Alzheimer's unit" means the external door won't open without a keypad entry. It's not a secured psych facility with individual patient secured rooms. It's to stop grandpa fom wandering away, not to protect others from aggressive patients.

Clearly sedation is the way to go here, but have you guys ever fought a demented or psychotic patient? Stronger than regular folks I can assure you. EMS cannot give IM sedatives without getting clearance from a physician if it's not for airway control.

There was no good solution here. I thought a taser minimized injury to people which made it humane?

 

[Denny347]

Nothing like having to go "hands on" with an older person. Grab their arm and have a handful of skin peel off into your grip...disturbing. I almost freaked out the first time that happened with me. I get called all the time to facilities where the staff cannot handle the patients. I tell them that they are better equipped to deal with the patient than I. However, many of these jobs are minimum wage and you get what you pay for.

 

[Rookie]

While I haven't dealt with mental patients, I still believe the fault lies with the facility. They are paid to provide care, and they didn't. Do I believe the officer should have tazed the patient? No, but his options are pretty limited and I think he chose what he thought was his best option. The fact remains, he shouldn't have been called in the first place.

 

[hoosierdoc]

why are we harping on the fact that he was tased? what are the downsides here? Is it less traumatic to be tackled by 10 people? SOMETHING was going to happen that this guy was not going to like. A taser is the safest option. Clearly it needed to be followed up with chemical sedation, but tasing him in that scenario was probably the best option to subdue him until they could sedate him.

 

[Rookie]

Kokomo Tribune : Peru police Tase Alzheimer patient

Another article...

" Officers said he was combative in the ambulance until his wife arrived at the hospital and calmed him down."

According to this article, the wife was able to calm him down. Any reason they didn't try that FIRST?

 

[Double T]

Why am I not surprised it's at a Miller's?

 

[Double T]

A "locked down Alzheimer's unit" means the external door won't open without a keypad entry. It's not a secured psych facility with individual patient secured rooms. It's to stop grandpa fom wandering away, not to protect others from aggressive patients.

Clearly sedation is the way to go here, but have you guys ever fought a demented or psychotic patient? Stronger than regular folks I can assure you. EMS cannot give IM sedatives without getting clearance from a physician if it's not for airway control.

There was no good solution here. I thought a taser minimized injury to people which made it humane?

That's incorrect, both are considered equal as they require a diagnosis and doctor signoff to reside on the unit.

I've worked (and ran) an Alzheimer's unit, and when they are confused and combative, the best thing to do is to seclude them and make sure they can't hurt themselves or anyone.

I really hope it was the LEO who made the call to taze, and not a medical person