Penn State Punishment NCAA Hammer time

[Tactical Dave]

Hammer time!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIRQf0S3oD0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

 

[williamsburg]

I think the NCAA went way overboard with vacating all of those wins. It's the athletes that won those games and the athletes had nothing to do with this case.

I agree. If they wanted to take Ol' Joe's wins away...fine. But what about the athletes that played. They could say that they did this and that....now they have nothing. Why block the current players from the post season. Fine the school...ok. Strip JoePa's wins....ok. Everything else...no good.

 

[mrs.printcraft]

I consider EVERYONE that benefitted from the success of the football program at PSU to be equally culpable.....including the ENTIRE university, staff, students, local businesses, and community. If they weren't so focused on a WINNING football team and what it meant to the university and surrounding community, MAYBE someone wouldn't have looked the other way and hoped this situation would "just go away".

Ummm...Okay...I'm going to give to give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you know what legal basis your opinion is based upon. Here's my answer to you, sir:

First, if you really believe this - I cannot fathom admitting it in public. Last time I checked, I live in the United States of America under the rule of law, which enumerates precisely the measures to which the government is permitted to punish the citizens for their "crimes". In this case, you are advocating the extraordinary position of holding an entire community culpable for the provable crimes of only a few. We do have a mechanism for that goal...its called a trial in a court of law. The only way I know of to accomplish that goal is through a formal charge of "conspiracy," one type of gateway charge to bring in additional defendants for prosecution by the state. If we charge the entire community, then each alleged conspirator is entitled to the full protections of both the Bill of Rights and Due Process guaranteed by both the state and federal constitutions. In this country, much to the displeasure of some, we are presumed innocent until proven guilty by the government, not some ignorant sensationalist media "journalist" person or organization doing violence to our freedoms through promoting the ignorance of our liberties and their foundation by the masses. Again, the burden is upon the government, not the other way around. Furthermore, we as enlightened citizens reserve judgment upon our peers outside our established institutions we created and charged with that duty. Applying your logic, then you (as well as I and every other citizen of the USA) are guilty of the crimes of slavery and every other criminal accusation levied against us (i.e., our Country) since the founding. A ridiculous proposition indeed.

Second, with respect to the workplace violations of the staff at any place of employment here in the US, we also have a mechanism for addressing that...its called being terminated for cause.

 

[Myles]

Sorry I'm late to comment... but holy cow! This punishment was B.S.! Yes, it could have been worse (although, not by much)... The lame excuse of making an example of them... is the biggest bunch of ! I never liked that grade school classroom approach to discipline. It's not necessary to punish everyone for the acts of a few.

I think the punishment let them off easy in comparison to punishments given to other schools for far lesser activities.

Were you this passionate when Ohio State was punished after their players traded some pins for tattoos?

 

[Myles]

State College primarily exists as a town because of Penn State. Many businesses heavily depend on the money spent by football fans. People will lose their jobs, businesses will fail.

Based on your analysis, why aren’t we punishing the businesses and populace of Bloomington IN and Lafayette IN? After all, didn’t they also benefit from all the Penn State fans that spent money when the team was in town?

What was done by a few to effect a cover-up was wrong, but I disagree that an entire town has to be punished.

They will still be playing the game. The stands will still be full. How are businesses going to fail?

 

[Myles]

I agree. If they wanted to take Ol' Joe's wins away...fine. But what about the athletes that played. They could say that they did this and that....now they have nothing. Why block the current players from the post season. Fine the school...ok. Strip JoePa's wins....ok. Everything else...no good.

It's taking the wins from the football program, not just Joe. The players who played in those games still have the memory of the games. I don't see how it takes away much from them.

 

[Myles]

.

 

[Effingham]

From Facebook:

I met a graduate from PSU
Who said: "A vast and recruitless stadium
Stands in the valley. Near it on the concrete,
Once bronze, a dark imprint lies, whose raised finger,
wrinkled face, and Coke bottle glasses
Tell that its sculptor well those Lions loved,
Which yet survive, playing hopeless seasons,
The talent that played and the program that ruled
And outside that ampitheater these words appear:
"My name is Paterno, Coach of Coaches
Look upon my record, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that silent old man, the scholarships,
Bowls, wins, and money have all been taken away.


(For those who've not seen the original, this is a parody of Shelley's "Ozymandias.")

 

[mrs.printcraft]

I think the punishment let them off easy in comparison to punishments given to other schools for far lesser activities.

Were you this passionate when Ohio State was punished after their players traded some pins for tattoos?

Okay, you really do know how to get me fired up... In answer to your question, YES! This one was even worse. Of course what those guys did was pretty dumb. But, what ever happened to the idea of an informal type restitution? The gods at the NCAA could still make their point, just correlate the punishment with the offense - just sayin..

[***WARNING: CENSORED comment about to appear...]

As for the "so-called lawyer" who started it - HIS actions are more appalling! I hate it when these morons who call themselves attorney's do stuff like this.

 

[Myles]

Okay, you really do know how to get me fired up... In answer to your question, YES! This one was even worse. Of course what those guys did was pretty dumb. But, what ever happened to the idea of an informal type restitution? The gods at the NCAA could still make their point, just correlate the punishment with the offense - just sayin..

[***WARNING: CENSORED comment about to appear...]

As for the "so-called lawyer" who started it - HIS actions are more appalling! I hate it when these morons who call themselves attorney's do stuff like this.

I agree on the lawyer.

I still think the NCAA was too lenient in comparison.
Using Ohio State as the example. The players who traded their own pins for tattoos are no longer at the school. Ohio State still lost scholarships and is banned from a bowl game. What Penn State did was much, much worse and a criminal activity. Yet they lose scholarships and are banned for 4 years. I know there is the money and the wins, but the wins don't matter going forward and the football program brings in more from alumni each year than they are being fined. Fines are good, but I don't like giving a business the chance to just buy their way out of a situation.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

I agree on the lawyer.

I still think the NCAA was too lenient in comparison.
Using Ohio State as the example. The players who traded their own pins for tattoos are no longer at the school. Ohio State still lost scholarships and is banned from a bowl game. What Penn State did was much, much worse and a criminal activity. Yet they lose scholarships and are banned for 4 years. I know there is the money and the wins, but the wins don't matter going forward and the football program brings in more from alumni each year than they are being fined. Fines are good, but I don't like giving a business the chance to just buy their way out of a situation.

Ok, a few of the players did something venal, how is that the fault of the school or the program, and why does the program get punished? A simple "you don't do stuff like that, you don't get to play anymore" to the players who did it should suffice.

In Penn State's case, there are obviously several people complicit in the coverup, but is this endemic to the system, or are they just a collection of knaves? Seems the NCAA's first impulse is to treat the program as a unit, and loot it for a bunch of money, then inhibit its action into the future. How does this represent justice for those victimized? Are they going to see any of this loot?

Something happened. It's too late to prevent it, obviously, but whatever became of the idea of finding the guilty and punishing them?

 

[Myles]

Ok, a few of the players did something venal, how is that the fault of the school or the program, and why does the program get punished? A simple "you don't do stuff like that, you don't get to play anymore" to the players who did it should suffice.

In Penn State's case, there are obviously several people complicit in the coverup, but is this endemic to the system, or are they just a collection of knaves? Seems the NCAA's first impulse is to treat the program as a unit, and loot it for a bunch of money, then inhibit its action into the future. How does this represent justice for those victimized? Are they going to see any of this loot?

Something happened. It's too late to prevent it, obviously, but whatever became of the idea of finding the guilty and punishing them?

Of course they should punish the guilty, but to stay consistant, they must also punish the football program. I don't know if the victims will see any of the money. I heard it is all going to charities that educate about child abuse. I don't see how you can punish without some players who were not involved suffering.
Just like Pete Carrol at USC. He knew he was about to be caught on all kinds of stuff he did so he jumped to the NFL. The NCAA can't do much to him, but they had to do something to the school. Otherwise atheletic departments can do whatever they want as long as they get rid of the guilty people before punishments are handed down.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

"...had to do something to the school"?

My point is, that the "school" or the "program" would have to be complicit in the violation, in the sense of knowing about it, and actively covering it up. The NCAA is not operating on the legal level of preponderance of evidence, they're not seeking definitive evidence, they're just swaggering around looting the deep pockets in closest proximity to the guilty. If the guy at USC was criminally guilty, why can't he be pursued even though he's not there anymore? How can it be presumed that the school was complicit?

 

[Myles]

"...had to do something to the school"?

My point is, that the "school" or the "program" would have to be complicit in the violation, in the sense of knowing about it, and actively covering it up. The NCAA is not operating on the legal level of preponderance of evidence, they're not seeking definitive evidence, they're just swaggering around looting the deep pockets in closest proximity to the guilty. If the guy at USC was criminally guilty, why can't he be pursued even though he's not there anymore? How can it be presumed that the school was complicit?

The participants were not just guilty of a criminal act. They also broke the NCAA rules. Just like Ohio State did.

 

[bcskypilot]

Penn State trustees file appeal...

Penn State Nittany Lions -- Trustees appeal to NCAA, vow federal lawsuit - ESPN

A Penn State board of trustee member filed an appeal Monday afternoon with the NCAA over sanctions levied against the university after the Jerry Sandusky child sex-abuse scandal.

Three other trustees joined the appeal, which states that the consent decree university president Rodney Erickson signed with the NCAA agreeing to the sanctions is "null and void" because Erickson "lacked the legal authority" to enter into such an agreement without the board's approval.

 

[Myles]

Penn State trustees file appeal...

Penn State Nittany Lions -- Trustees appeal to NCAA, vow federal lawsuit - ESPN

A Penn State board of trustee member filed an appeal Monday afternoon with the NCAA over sanctions levied against the university after the Jerry Sandusky child sex-abuse scandal.

Three other trustees joined the appeal, which states that the consent decree university president Rodney Erickson signed with the NCAA agreeing to the sanctions is "null and void" because Erickson "lacked the legal authority" to enter into such an agreement without the board's approval.

They should just take the punishment and lie low.

 

[mrs.printcraft]

They should just take the punishment and lie low.

Ya, I agree. Not a good idea to keep stirring this up...It can only get worse.