Need advice on this custom 1911 “race gun” I recently inherited.

[rkwhyte2]

If this is a Para frame it was produced in 1998. Found this chart for reference.

para ordnance serial numbers - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

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[Twangbanger]

That will be fun to shoot, if you get a modern red dot for it.

If you decide to shoot this gun in USPSA Open division, your life will revolve around BRASS, BRASS, BRASS, so start buying it now. As you can imagine it's virtually impossible to get your brass back at the kind of matches this gun is intended for, because the ranges don't allow it (too disruptive to conduct of the match). Even if the range let you go back over the stages after the match, the brass gets distributed all over "ankle breaker" gravel where it's impossible to locate, and all other kinds of brass get mixed in it anyway.

(Brass availability is the reason most people shooting these guns have switched to "9mm Major" these days, a std. 9mm case loaded to 1500~1600 fps with a custom thicker barrel to handle the above-spec pressures. But you do still see a few old 38 super guns out there).

 

[NHT3]

The funny thing is my dream 1911 build is a double stack 38 Super or 10mm with cool slide cuts or serrations and a micro red dot/reflex like a RMR, Deltapoint or Holosun. I used to talk to my Dad-in-law about that dream gun. One day he pulls this out of his safe to show it off. I know he only took it in on trade because of me. My first thought when I saw the gun was “WTH is this? How old is that scope and mount?!” But the more I check it out the more I’m in awe of the exceptional fit and function of the gun. Maybe I should use this as the base for my dream build? I think I’d just have to replace the slide.

Considering the history involved I would encourage you to modify it into your "dream gun" and enjoy it..

 

[churchmouse]

We had a Para LDA at one point. This thread brought that bad memory back.

 

[Jaybird1980]

We had a Para LDA at one point. This thread brought that bad memory back.

It's funny because my Para LDA was the only Para I owned that was worth a crap. I had standard Para's and 1 LDA. The standards were garbage with several trips back to Para with no luck. The LDA ran from day one, would only have problems if the mags took a hit to the feed lips.

I don't think Para was known for consistency.

 

[churchmouse]

It's funny because my Para LDA was the only Para I owned that was worth a crap. I had standard Para's and 1 LDA. The standards were garbage with several trips back to Para with no luck. The LDA ran from day one, would only have problems if the mags took a hit to the feed lips.

I don't think Para was known for consistency.

We had several P-12's and P-14's when Para was making a decent 1911.
One was a Limited in stainless that was one of my 1st trigger tune ups.
That gun was spot on. We put enough rounds through it to figure out the tunning MIM parts is sheer Bravo Sierra.
Replaced the hammer/sear/disco and off to the races. Thousands of rounds and it was a bump firing beast.
A good friend still has that gun. And he runs it like its stolen. Go figure.
Para slipped quietly beneath the waves of reliability when they shifted manf to the states I believe.

 

[Jaybird1980]

We had several P-12's and P-14's when Para was making a decent 1911.
One was a Limited in stainless that was one of my 1st trigger tune ups.
That gun was spot on. We put enough rounds through it to figure out the tunning MIM parts is sheer Bravo Sierra.
Replaced the hammer/sear/disco and off to the races. Thousands of rounds and it was a bump firing beast.
A good friend still has that gun. And he runs it like its stolen. Go figure.
Para slipped quietly beneath the waves of reliability when they shifted manf to the states I believe.

My buddy had an older P14 that ran good, still does actually. That was some of the reason I bought the Para's that I did, but no luck.

I always wanted a P18 just couldn't make myself do it. The CZ filled the role just fine.

 

[Firehawk]

Any ideas on the slide? It’s obviously not the Para slide. Caspian, Fusion? Any way for me to tell the difference?

 

[Firehawk]

It’s definitely NOT a Para Ordinance LDA. I just watched some YouTube on the LDA and the LDA has a double action trigger, like a revolver. On the LDA the slide does not lock the hammer back, the hammer is moved by pulling the trigger, like a revolver. Mine is still SA single action only.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Any ideas on the slide? It’s obviously not the Para slide. Caspian, Fusion? Any way for me to tell the difference?

What makes you say it's obviously not a Para slide?

Fusion didn't even exist when that pistol was built.

 

[Hardscrable]

I have owned 3 Para’s. LDA was crap. Had a P 14-45 that was great. Bought a slightly used P 18 stainless chambered in 9X21 ( Canadian built ). Had a few minor issues and the mags were crap. Got hooked up with a guy at Para who got me 1 new mag they were developing...worked great. A year later when they put them on the market he shipped me 5 more. Then they disappeared from market. Just sold both guns a year ago...kind of miss them.

OP - I have 6 - 38 Super mags made by Mec Gar for P18. They were shipped by mistake ( ordered 9 mm ). If you can use them they are yours, just pay to ship.

 

[Firehawk]

What makes you say it's obviously not a Para slide?

Fusion didn't even exist when that pistol was built.

There are no slide stampings, no serration cuts and no sight cuts.

 

[Jaybird1980]

There are no slide stampings, no serration cuts and no sight cuts.

But it's been milled and reworked. Could have had all that stuff at the start.

 

[danatkins]

I'm betting it started life as a Para limited looks like there was a shelf for an adjustable sight at one time

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[Bosshoss]

That gun is from the mid 90's to 2000 time frame.
Has a George Huening scope mount and what looks like a Pro Point3 scope.
Those scope were pretty good. The early Pro Points using this or a similar mount tended to break off the tubes from the main body. The latter ones like yours had a radius where the tube attached to the main body and that helped with that problem.
They also had the springs inside the scope that moved the inner tube for adjustment and these would sometimes slip and and basically make the scope useless. If yours is working then don't worry about it and shoot it.
If dot starts disappearing and coming back while shooting that is usually the battery contacts and a little bending of the contacts will take care of that problem.

I have seen and shot guns with that trigger before it was a conversion and sorry I can't remember the name of the company that built them. The one I shot had a sub 1 pound trigger with a 21 pound mainspring and was nice. I don't remember much about the feel of it but it was a safe trigger that was very light. The friend that had the gun usually had George Huening or Ray Saltzman do their gunsmithing and probably installed his and both are still around and doing gun work.(last I heard George was still doing some work)
I believe Atlanta Arms and a couple of others load 38 super Major power factor ammo and sell it if you don't reload that caliber.
I also have some well used 38 super brass that I can roll size and give you to get started, if you reload.

Good luck with it and you should definitely shoot it in a match and enjoy it.

 

[Firehawk]

But it's been milled and reworked. Could have had all that stuff at the start.

Well, I don’t know the ins and outs of milling a 1911 slide. But milling wouldn’t get rid of the front sight cut would it? Also, I’ve handled a lot of production 1911s of a lot of different brands and I’ve never handled a production factory made 1911 that didn’t have a least some slide slop even if it was just the tiniest amount. My kimber eclipse custom 2 even had a very tiny amount of slop between the slide and frame. This gun has zero slop. I wouldn’t expect that from a factory made Para slide.

 

[Firehawk]

That gun is from the mid 90's to 2000 time frame.
Has a George Huening scope mount and what looks like a Pro Point3 scope.
Those scope were pretty good. The early Pro Points using this or a similar mount tended to break off the tubes from the main body. The latter ones like yours had a radius where the tube attached to the main body and that helped with that problem.
They also had the springs inside the scope that moved the inner tube for adjustment and these would sometimes slip and and basically make the scope useless. If yours is working then don't worry about it and shoot it.
If dot starts disappearing and coming back while shooting that is usually the battery contacts and a little bending of the contacts will take care of that problem.

I have seen and shot guns with that trigger before it was a conversion and sorry I can't remember the name of the company that built them. The one I shot had a sub 1 pound trigger with a 21 pound mainspring and was nice. I don't remember much about the feel of it but it was a safe trigger that was very light. The friend that had the gun usually had George Huening or Ray Saltzman do their gunsmithing and probably installed his and both are still around and doing gun work.(last I heard George was still doing some work)
I believe Atlanta Arms and a couple of others load 38 super Major power factor ammo and sell it if you don't reload that caliber.
I also have some well used 38 super brass that I can roll size and give you to get started, if you reload.

Good luck with it and you should definitely shoot it in a match and enjoy it.

Bosshoss, thanks for all that info. I’ll look those gunsmiths up. I do reload and I already have 38 Super dies. I’d love to have the brass if your offering. PM me the details thanks.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Well, I don’t know the ins and outs of milling a 1911 slide. But milling wouldn’t get rid of the front sight cut would it? Also, I’ve handled a lot of production 1911s of a lot of different brands and I’ve never handled a production factory made 1911 that didn’t have a least some slide slope even if it was just the tiniest amount. My kimber eclipse custom 2 even had a very tiny amount of slop between the slide and frame. This gun has zero slop. I wouldn’t expect that from a factory made Para slide.

The front sight cut could have been welded up. The fitting can be done to remove the slop. The builders of these guns really know their stuff.

I'm not saying it is a Para Slide, but it easily could be. It could also be a Colt, Caspian, SA, Federal, Auto Ordinance, hell it could be any of the ones available when it was built.

 

[drillsgt]

There is a Para pistol on this page that has a trigger that looks like yours.

Para-Ordnance P14-45 - Modern Firearms

Basic Para-Ordnance P14-45 pistol, caliber .45ACP. Para-Ordnance P18-9 pistol, caliber 9mm Luger / Parabellum. Basic Para-Ordnance P14-45 LDA pistol, caliber .45ACP, with DAO-type LDA trigger. Compact P10-45 pistol, caliber .45ACP. Characteristics Type: Single Action (Double action...

modernfirearms.net

That's the LDA trigger it was different.

 

[Firehawk]

The front sight cut could have been welded up. The fitting can be done to remove the slop. The builders of these guns really know their stuff.

I'm not saying it is a Para Slide, but it easily could be. It could also be a Colt, Caspian, SA, Federal, Auto Ordinance, hell it could be any of the ones available when it was built.

Jaybird, I compared it with another 1911 side by side and I see what you mean now. The custom gun’s slide is cut maybe 1/2” shorter, just behind where the front sight cut would have been. And the top of the slide is milled down. The mystery continues…