Message Received from Dean of Students at IUPUI

[historian]

So what loopholes does that present to carry licenses? I mean, I would think it would blow down to sort of a difference between "property owner" and "manager" if it were to be tried. They own the rights to the school, but since tax dollars help pay for the property they shouldn't be permitted to enforce a policy which contradicts state law.

At least that would be my understanding based on what little I know about how such organizations are facilitated.

Most of these colleges had the land donated to them. State funding is to help keep student costs low. That is really where most of the money goes.

The lack of state oversight is also there to allow for educational freedom. We may not like the leftist teachers, but I would rather have the schools be independent and hire them than have a state dictate who to hire and fire.

 

[Indy317]

IU Bloomington's policy is the same. If a person is located that is not affiliated with the university somehow and they have no need to be there will have be ran checked for a license to carry and then, depending on the time of day, maybe advised of trespass and asked to leave.

There is constant debate on if universities can even lawfully "ban" firearms (as in forcing people to leave or face arrest for trespassing) under IC 35-47-11.1-2. Some consider universities falling under the "or other type of local governmental corporate entity" or possibly "local building authority" categories of a political subdivision. Universities are a form of government and they government locally on their property. Not only that, they have numerous buildings in which they are an authority of, including housing of citizens. It will eventually take a lawsuit to eventually determine just how lawful the university bans are.

 

[Indy317]

"Privately" owned by the whatever corporation IUPUI is filed under. Sure, it is a State-sponsored school, but it is also a separate corporate entity. This is different than a State "agency", which is actually a subset of the State Government.

Think of it as a nice loophole: all of the conveniences of a government body, and all the freedoms of a private entity.

The main reason I ask is because I'm not 100% sure on the ownership of the property. It's a community/public school and not private property, no?....I could be wrong - and that's why I am asking. If it *is* state owned property then how could they possibly ask you to leave?...Yeah - is the IUPUI campus privately owned by the university or is it owned by the state?

IUPUI is actually operated by the Board of Trustees of Indiana University. Indiana University is a university of the state. The board of Trustees are considered a body corporate, and defined as a "body politic." The board of Trustees are considered a political entity of the state based on one definition of "body politic."

I disagree about it being "separate" from the state. It isn't an agency of the state, but it is an entity of the state. Almost all public universities in the state give at least some or all of their employees the general state retirement pension plan. They are under the same Indiana Open Door laws as other public entities. I would argue that state universities are much more "government" than the quasi-government entities like the transit boards, or the capital improvement board in Indianapolis. Also, any city/county roads and the sidewalks along them are still considered public right-of-way, and thus people can carry along those sidewalks if they choose and the university couldn't apply their rules in those areas.

The fact is, people do have power. Every university is different, but the boards of trustees are usually appointed and/or elected, or a combination of the two. IU's board is made up of nine members. Six are appointed by the Gov, one of which must be a full time IU student. Three are voted upon by the alumni of the university. This is where those folks who are alumni should be contacting those running, asking for their thoughts on carrying on the property. Obviously, contacting the Govs office could help as well.

The board seems to be worried about the upcoming "strike" on the Bloomington campus. They were supposed to meet both Thurs. and Fri. of this week, but have changed their meeting date to only one day. A spokesperson for the board says it isn't because of the strike. Here is more information:

iuonstrike.tumblr.com and Facebook.com/IUOnStrike

 

[ScouT6a]

I think too many people read this part of the code or hear about it and get completely hung up on it:
IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

Back up and read the section immediately above this:
IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.

I have taken rifles to our local school on more than one occasion for educational purposes on my own and with the VFW/American Legion during holiday ceremonies. One of the schools here in our county just started a trap/skeet club, so all the kids involved will be handling long guns on school property at some point.

 

[drillsgt]

IUPUI is actually operated by the Board of Trustees of Indiana University. Indiana University is a university of the state. The board of Trustees are considered a body corporate, and defined as a "body politic." The board of Trustees are considered a political entity of the state based on one definition of "body politic."

I disagree about it being "separate" from the state. It isn't an agency of the state, but it is an entity of the state. Almost all public universities in the state give at least some or all of their employees the general state retirement pension plan. They are under the same Indiana Open Door laws as other public entities. I would argue that state universities are much more "government" than the quasi-government entities like the transit boards, or the capital improvement board in Indianapolis. Also, any city/county roads and the sidewalks along them are still considered public right-of-way, and thus people can carry along those sidewalks if they choose and the university couldn't apply their rules in those areas.

The fact is, people do have power. Every university is different, but the boards of trustees are usually appointed and/or elected, or a combination of the two. IU's board is made up of nine members. Six are appointed by the Gov, one of which must be a full time IU student. Three are voted upon by the alumni of the university. This is where those folks who are alumni should be contacting those running, asking for their thoughts on carrying on the property. Obviously, contacting the Govs office could help as well.

The board seems to be worried about the upcoming "strike" on the Bloomington campus. They were supposed to meet both Thurs. and Fri. of this week, but have changed their meeting date to only one day. A spokesperson for the board says it isn't because of the strike. Here is more information:

iuonstrike.tumblr.com and Facebook.com/IUOnStrike

I'm not sure what state employees get but we only got an employer contribution to the 401k/mutual fund of your choice.

 

[Jack Burton]

then I don't understand the purpose of 5 pages of nasty attacks on this dean for sending out a memo so his sheeple staff don't panic and dial 911. If he can't change the policy then nothing he writes will make anyone happy.

Because he's a weenie... does that help you understand?

If what he wanted to do was to meet your expectations all he needed to write was: "People are going to be wearing empty holsters as is their right to protest. Don't freak out. Love, the Dean."

Instead he wanted to debate the issue from a platform of "authority" and one-sidedness. Any person with a 2 digit IQ knows that protesters are not "speaking for the college" but he had to put that in there anyway, even though he has probably never said that about any other protest group.

 

[Denny347]

I'm not sure what state employees get but we only got an employer contribution to the 401k/mutual fund of your choice.

PERF

 

[SleeplessInNaptown]

I'm trying to decide if protesting this week will be worth it or not. Can the campus police take me in for questioning or toss my bags?

 

[Jack Burton]

I'm trying to decide if protesting this week will be worth it or not. Can the campus police take me in for questioning or toss my bags?

They can do anything they want but if they do either of those two things just because you are wearing an empty holster they are knowingly acting outside the law and can be sued and be personable responsible for damages.

 

[SleeplessInNaptown]

They can do anything they want but if they do either of those two things just because you are wearing an empty holster they are knowingly acting outside the law and can be sued and be personable responsible for damages.

Very true. I'm heading to campus in a couple hours--it'll be interesting to see turnout among the Business school.

 

[Destro]

Because he's a weenie... does that help you understand?

If what he wanted to do was to meet your expectations all he needed to write was: "People are going to be wearing empty holsters as is their right to protest. Don't freak out. Love, the Dean."

Instead he wanted to debate the issue from a platform of "authority" and one-sidedness. Any person with a 2 digit IQ knows that protesters are not "speaking for the college" but he had to put that in there anyway, even though he has probably never said that about any other protest group.

your assessment fails, most profs. have less than a 2 digit IQ

 

[Spencir]

Not allowing weapons on the IUPUI campus is clearly not working. They've had multiple muggings and assaults this year.

 

[SmokinSigs357]

Well, look what's going on right now in the news...some "benevolent member of society" was running around a Texas campus stabbing and slashing everyone he could. I think he injured 14 before the campus pd got hold of him.

 

[MikeDVB]

Isn't the word you were looking for malevolent?

be·nev·o·lent
Adjective
Well meaning and kindly.
(of an organization) Serving a charitable rather than a profit-making purpose.

 

[actaeon277]

Interesting. Never heard of this style of protest.

I think it started after Virginia Tech incident.

 

[SmokinSigs357]

Isn't the word you were looking for malevolent?

No...notice the quotes. Kinda like, some "nice" guy was running around and stabbing people. Had I used malevolent, I would not have put it in quotes. Quotes is old school purple text...

 

[Walt_Jabsco]

Because he's a weenie... does that help you understand?

If what he wanted to do was to meet your expectations all he needed to write was: "People are going to be wearing empty holsters as is their right to protest. Don't freak out. Love, the Dean."

Instead he wanted to debate the issue from a platform of "authority" and one-sidedness. Any person with a 2 digit IQ knows that protesters are not "speaking for the college" but he had to put that in there anyway, even though he has probably never said that about any other protest group.

You seem confused about what a Dean does. As a representative of the school, he expressed the University's policy, not his own opinion. And regardless of his own opinion (which he has every right to have, whether he disagrees with you or not), he issued that notification in a civil, reasonable tone as a means of preventing potential panic in light of the recent campus lockdown.

The comments in this thread are just nonsensical attacks and they're precisely why gun owners are so reviled by many. Rather than making personal insults, why don't you try presenting a reasonable case and participating in a reasonable exchange?