Lots of folks carry a pistol but…do you train with it?

[Skip]

Suggestion: YouTube can be your friend.
Rob Pincus
John Lovell
Langdon Tactical
Ken Hackathorn
Are a few. I have a friend on YouTube too, he is "old school". Do a search for “hrfunk".
He shot a series of state LEO qualification courses. Some are pretty good courses that can be “morphed” into training.

Also, there are classes you can take. You’ll not be sorry in taking one from a reputable trainer.
There is a section on the page here too.

 

[Skip]

@bashMOH
How are your basic marksmanship skills? Groups or shotgun pattern? If the latter, you’ll have to start on the basics.

 

[bashMOH]

@bashMOH
How are your basic marksmanship skills? Groups or shotgun pattern? If the latter, you’ll have to start on the basics.

I know I need barebone basic skills. I shot a bit as a kid, but 99% of my experience is with airsoft. I don't carry now because I know I'm not accurate enough to be safe. I've purchased ammo and am intending on heading to a range here soon, but I've never been and quite frankly don't know where to start. I've watched John Lovell and have changed up my grip a bit and it feels better now. I have it in my mind to look up classes in my area sometime

 

[bwframe]

I need to improve what I record. Right now, I keep a record of all range trips, date, location, firearms and round counts. That's not training data though, that's just tracking round counts for maintenance. I do take a shot timer but very rarely record results. Even when I do, I do a poor job of it. I need to fix this. Not all range trips are training trips for me, so just heading out to plink with a couple of 1911s does not count as training and I won't record it as such.

But, I need to establish a plan and work towards it while recording progress made during the actual range trips that are training focused.

WARNING!!!!!!! LONG POST!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL
So, I went to the range today to get some "standards" for the beginning of this journey. I hope I can make it for a while. I think this has some promise!
Here is what I did. I took the Dot Torture (Timed) Drill, the Fast Test and the 1,2,3 drill and recorded the times that I took to shoot it. Two pistols: My P365 X MACRO TACOPS and P320 Compact. The two latter courses are able to be found out on the web. The DTT drill is as follows:

View attachment 268406
There are a lot of times that are not all that stellar BUT, I'm just getting started in this journey, so, honestly, I'm pretty well pleased with them. Just by way of information, I did the DTT Drill a few weeks ago with these two pistols too. The times on these tests are better than I did on those so.....I think that is improvement.

I don't have any unrealistic expectations either. I'm 67, overweight and I don't have the upper body strength nor the response time nor the mental acuity I had when younger. I'm never going to get to a sub 1 second draw. I'm good with that. On my best days, I'm at 1.3sec area but, everything has to be done perfectly for me....My reloads suffer some because of that too, I think I am now around a 3.5sec reload. Both the draw and reload are from concealment too, not open. I hope that gives me a bit of an "alibi" or "Mulligan" or excuses to keep some of the "Tacticool Folks" away from being too critical and commenting.

(P.S. There was an error on the sheet that I have now corrected too.)
Here are the times from my P365 X MACRO TACOPS:
View attachment 268405

Here are the times from my P320 Compact:
View attachment 268407

At the risk of repeating myself, I'll again encourage shooting local competition matches as part of your "training."

Your timing and scoring is tracked, along with it a comparison to others shooting similar guns/divisions.

Icing on the cake is that you will be subject to input from other shooters along with range safety officers.


.

 

[DadSmith]

I've been helping my son with his draw from holster.
He carries owb with a thumb snap holster.
He wanted to train with it unsnaped.
I ask if that's how he carried it.
He said no.
I said then it will remain snapped for training purposes.

We were at 5yds I had him draw and fire 3 shots at torso. His fastest time was 1.19 sec his avg time was 1.64 sec.

We shot over 200rds that day.

He just couldn't get his avg time any faster.
So I told him to try it unsnaped and this would mean he'd need a new and different style holster.

He got his avg time down to 1.56.

Now my question is. Should he invest in a holster that doesn't require it to be unsnaped or is he doing pretty good with what he has?

 

[ditcherman]

I've been helping my son with his draw from holster.
He carries owb with a thumb snap holster.
He wanted to train with it unsnaped.
I ask if that's how he carried it.
He said no.
I said then it will remain snapped for training purposes.

We were at 5yds I had him draw and fire 3 shots at torso. His fastest time was 1.19 sec his avg time was 1.64 sec.

We shot over 200rds that day.

He just couldn't get his avg time any faster.
So I told him to try it unsnaped and this would mean he'd need a new and different style holster.

He got his avg time down to 1.56.

Now my question is. Should he invest in a holster that doesn't require it to be unsnaped or is he doing pretty good with what he has?

I’m nobody (just happen to be here first) but I think that’s fast for a thumb break holster.
I’m maybe faster than that appendix, and probably slower at 3-4 o’clock IWB.
Looking forward to what others have to say.

 

[DadSmith]

I’m nobody (just happen to be here first) but I think that’s fast for a thumb break holster.
I’m maybe faster than that appendix, and probably slower at 3-4 o’clock IWB.
Looking forward to what others have to say.

He's much faster than I am with them 26 yo reflexes. He carries 3 o'clock owb.

 

[cedartop]

I've been helping my son with his draw from holster.
He carries owb with a thumb snap holster.
He wanted to train with it unsnaped.
I ask if that's how he carried it.
He said no.
I said then it will remain snapped for training purposes.

We were at 5yds I had him draw and fire 3 shots at torso. His fastest time was 1.19 sec his avg time was 1.64 sec.

We shot over 200rds that day.

He just couldn't get his avg time any faster.
So I told him to try it unsnaped and this would mean he'd need a new and different style holster.

He got his avg time down to 1.56.

Now my question is. Should he invest in a holster that doesn't require it to be unsnaped or is he doing pretty good with what he has?

He should get a better holster. If he wants retention that is fine, but not a thumb snap if I am understanding you correctly. However, drawing and getting 3 good hits in an average of 1.56 seconds is very good. Good as in I often see people in matches not getting their first hit in in that time. The better shooters do, but not the average shooter.

 

[cedartop]

I've been helping my son with his draw from holster.
He carries owb with a thumb snap holster.
He wanted to train with it unsnaped.
I ask if that's how he carried it.
He said no.
I said then it will remain snapped for training purposes.

We were at 5yds I had him draw and fire 3 shots at torso. His fastest time was 1.19 sec his avg time was 1.64 sec.

We shot over 200rds that day.

He just couldn't get his avg time any faster.
So I told him to try it unsnaped and this would mean he'd need a new and different style holster.

He got his avg time down to 1.56.

Now my question is. Should he invest in a holster that doesn't require it to be unsnaped or is he doing pretty good with what he has?

So I got to know, is this like an Uncle Mikes holster or some kind of old leather with the thumb snap or what?

 

[DadSmith]

He should get a better holster. If he wants retention that is fine, but not a thumb snap if I am understanding you correctly. However, drawing and getting 3 good hits in an average of 1.56 seconds is very good. Good as in I often see people in matches not getting their first hit in in that time. The better shooters do, but not the average shooter.

1.64 snapped.
I am a iwb fan, and possibly he can switch to iwb appendix carry that would probably be very fast, and concealed. However, best to go with what he's comfortable with. I agree the snap needs to go. He seen why a few times while running drills.
He isn't into competition he just wants to be ready to protect himself, and his family.

 

[DadSmith]

So I got to know, is this like an Uncle Mikes holster or some kind of old leather with the thumb snap or what?

THUMB BREAK SCABBARD

Desantis Holster is an online store for inside the waistband holsters, pistol holsters, Taurus, pistol, pancake holsters, holsters for springfield XD, walther, handgun, GLOCK IWB, GLOCK 22 and leather holsters for 1911.

www.desantisholster.com

 

[Indianapail]

Have the privilege of living relatively close to MCFG, try and shoot once a week at least with 4-500 rounds through the guns I regularly carry. Not "training" per say but have seen a great improvement shooting at distance and the speed and accuracy up close vs. the old regimen of shooting once a month. The only problem is its hard on the wallet

 

[cedartop]

THUMB BREAK SCABBARD

Desantis Holster is an online store for inside the waistband holsters, pistol holsters, Taurus, pistol, pancake holsters, holsters for springfield XD, walther, handgun, GLOCK IWB, GLOCK 22 and leather holsters for 1911.

www.desantisholster.com

OK, that is a decent holster. Still good work though.

 

[DadSmith]

OK, that is a decent holster. Still good work though.

He got it before covid outbreak iirc. He likes it, but I tried to explain to him about it, but nothing like experiencing not getting the snap undone fast enough a few times. In a life and death situation you don't want to have trouble with that snap.

 

[Skip]

He got it before covid outbreak iirc. He likes it, but I tried to explain to him about it, but nothing like experiencing not getting the snap undone fast enough a few times. In a life and death situation you don't want to have trouble with that snap.

I make my own Kydex holsters. I’m an OWB kind of guy. I started out with leather holsters though and lots of them snapped. I have a Galco Phoenix for my M629 Classic. I don’t carry it for CCW though. That being said, between the snaps and now, I fell in love with the H721OT Don Hume holster.
I’ve come to love the “snap” fit of Kydex now though and don’t plan on going back.

Your son is doing real well. My draw to first shot has never been 1.19sec!

Oh to be young again! Haha

 

[ditcherman]

1.64 snapped.
I am a iwb fan, and possibly he can switch to iwb appendix carry that would probably be very fast, and concealed. However, best to go with what he's comfortable with. I agree the snap needs to go. He seen why a few times while running drills.
He isn't into competition he just wants to be ready to protect himself, and his family.

Everyone’s carry journey is just that, a journey.

I can imagine a young father wanting to protect his family thinking the thumb break is a part of that protection.

Just a possibility.

Good on him, good on you, all around though.

 

[ditcherman]

Got a bit of range time in today, and while I want to do the modified dot torture explained in here I needed to shoot a few different pistols.
A Point One Tactics class is coming up, and one of his standards is 5 shots in the a zone, from 15 yards, in 2.6 seconds.
That’s crazy. There’s no way I’ll be able to make that. Usually when I have a class coming up I practice to their standards and can get close. Maybe earn the pin or whatever, or maybe not, but get close.
There’s no way I see that’s possible for me. I know I’m rusty over the winter.
Take one factor away or relax it I can do it, but 5 in 2.6 at 15 yards?

Curious as to if some of you here can do that?

Also, read in a different thread someone talking about going back to the foundations every once in a while, and I thought, “well nobody is going to mess with my grip, I like it”.



I obviously need to go back to grip school.

 

[Skip]

A Point One Tactics class is coming up, and one of his standards is 5 shots in the a zone, from 15 yards, in 2.6 seconds.

Certainly not from the holster! I will have to try it though. Also, will have to check that class out.

 

[Skip]

Lots more to those standards than just that one thing though and…no, I’m not there yet! Lol
In fact, if I read that right, you have to do the whole thing 8 times in a row to get a coin.

I wonder how many coins they’ve given out….

 

[BE Mike]

Got a bit of range time in today, and while I want to do the modified dot torture explained in here I needed to shoot a few different pistols.
A Point One Tactics class is coming up, and one of his standards is 5 shots in the a zone, from 15 yards, in 2.6 seconds.
That’s crazy. There’s no way I’ll be able to make that. Usually when I have a class coming up I practice to their standards and can get close. Maybe earn the pin or whatever, or maybe not, but get close.
There’s no way I see that’s possible for me. I know I’m rusty over the winter.
Take one factor away or relax it I can do it, but 5 in 2.6 at 15 yards?

Curious as to if some of you here can do that?

Also, read in a different thread someone talking about going back to the foundations every once in a while, and I thought, “well nobody is going to mess with my grip, I like it”.

View attachment 268745

I obviously need to go back to grip school.

It's not the grip, my good man. It's trigger control.