Light it up or not?

[Usmccookie]

I keep a single light on in my kitchen. Dim enough to not be annoying, bright enough to provide enough light to id anything throughout the house... this works for me. My wife gets started easily, so we did this to ease her anxiety and to help the little ones navigate at night. I still keep a wml on my "duty/shtf" ar and my edc flashlight handy.

 

[bwframe]

 

[marvin02]

The last Wed. of each month the defensive pistol match at Michigan City Rifle Club is low light.

This is an indoor, IDPA style match.

Michigan City Rifle Club - Pistol

 

[OneBadV8]

I do a WML for my personal defense carry. I also practice with a handheld, because sometimes equipment fails, or you have different guns at the ready

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And why would you ever opt to take a hand off your weapon to hold a light separately? I completely agree with you, I think I just failed to word my response very clearly.

I can move a handheld in ways that would not be safe to move a handgun. I can hold my pistol in a retention position while using the light to search a tighter area, around an obstruction, etc.

I can hold a handheld away from my body without much concern, and people do shoot at lights. I'd rather not be behind mine.

Using the splash works, but assumes you know where the thing to be illuminated is. When opening a door, you've no idea where the other person is, so how do you use splash quickly?

 

[cosermann]

I can move a handheld in ways that would not be safe to move a handgun. I can hold my pistol in a retention position while using the light to search a tighter area, around an obstruction, etc.

I can hold a handheld away from my body without much concern, and people do shoot at lights. I'd rather not be behind mine.

Using the splash works, but assumes you know where the thing to be illuminated is. When opening a door, you've no idea where the other person is, so how do you use splash quickly?

Huh, that's weird. Almost sounds like you've done this before.

 

[Brad69]

IMO a WML is essential gear.
I have a light on every HD weapon Handgun,Shotgun,AR.
If you have trained in low light using both techniques HH and WML. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I believe a person that has little or no training the WML is better.

I am so old I remember we use to tape Maglites on our M16's.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

I am totally in favor of WML on a home defense gun, but I sure as heck am not going to use it to PID family members.

Sure you can.
That's the whole reason for having the damn things... to avoid mistakes.
Doesn't mean you AIM your weapon at people prior to KNOWING you're gonna shoot them.
Have you been reading the other posts?
Have you done ANY low light training?

You search your home, and PID any potential targets as friend/foe with the weapon at a low ready. (pointed at the floor) There will be plenty of spill/splash whatever word you want to call it...

In other words, there will be enough reflected light (that's NOT in line with the bore of the weapon) to easily see if any potential target is a "bad guy" breaking in your home, or your college kid coming home for the weekend unannounced.

Then, IF you decide you need to fire... you just bring it up on target, and go to town.
If not... nobody was ever in danger... because the weapon was never aimed at them. It was at a low ready. (a safe direction)

 

[bwframe]

...blah, blah..
Have you done ANY low light training?
...blah, blah...

You know who you are speaking to, right?


.

 

[cedartop]

Sure you can.
That's the whole reason for having the damn things... to avoid mistakes.
Doesn't mean you AIM your weapon at people prior to KNOWING you're gonna shoot them.
Have you been reading the other posts?
Have you done ANY low light training?

You search your home, and PID any potential targets as friend/foe with the weapon at a low ready. (pointed at the floor) There will be plenty of spill/splash whatever word you want to call it...

In other words, there will be enough reflected light (that's NOT in line with the bore of the weapon) to easily see if any potential target is a "bad guy" breaking in your home, or your college kid coming home for the weekend unannounced.

Then, IF you decide you need to fire... you just bring it up on target, and go to town.
If not... nobody was ever in danger... because the weapon was never aimed at them. It was at a low ready. (a safe direction)

I am familiar with what you are talking about. I started training in 1989 and have been through various evolutions of all this. Back when I did it for real, we didn't have WML on duty guns and our hand helds doubled as batons. In more recent years I continue to train in low light but the for real has been replaced with matches or FOF.

I am in no way anti WML. They are on my long guns, my home defense pistol, and my new EDC actually has one though I would be perfectly comfortable without one. It is all about context. At home I would prefer ambient lighting. If you are actively searching for a bad guy as part of your job, you would hopefully be properly trained and may do something like you describe. If just a regular guy or gal the likelihood of needing a WML is very low, as evidenced by tons of videos showing it and data bases like those of Tom Givens students never using one to come out on top. Does this mean you would never need one? Of course not. If it makes you feel better AND you know the proper way to use them, proceed as you see fit.

Unfortunately often the WML is used as just one more tactical woobie. As others have said and I concur, no problem with a WML but a good handheld is useful under a much wider landscape. Though I am not big on appeals to authority, many of the big names in the field who have seen much more than me don't bother with them.

I will repeat, I don't have a problem with anyone using a WML on their EDC, but I strongly recommend training to learn the best techniques and tactics, but also to avoid negative outcomes.

 

[tcecil88]

WML's on all my defensive guns.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You search your home, and PID any potential targets as friend/foe with the weapon at a low ready. (pointed at the floor) There will be plenty of spill/splash whatever word you want to call it...

How do you know where someone is as you turn a corner, open a door toward you, look around an obstruction, etc?

Do you suppose someone could be close enough that you're still covering them at the low ready?

Do you suppose you could be close enough that a startle response trigger pull could put a round in them?

NWIF I'm clearing my own house solely with a WML as long as my son lives with me.

 

[Gabriel]

Several good points in the thread. FWIW, I've done a lot of building clearing in the dark and use both, context dependent. I also came real close to shooting my reflection in a mirror when I was brand new to WML and we were being taught to use it in what would now be considered not best practices ways. Don't target ID with it, unless you're using splash. Dry practice with it. Keep a handheld anyway.

For in your home, you should be able to "precondition" with ambient lighting anyway. Or, roombahs with spot lights on voice command. One of these is serious...

I stopped searching buildings with my handgun out quite a few years ago. Now I only draw it past retention and keep it there while searching with a handheld.

I'm still a big advocate of WMLs, but I find I hardly ever use them. Hunting nuisance animals at night and serving warrants at work are about the only times.

 

[Gabriel]

If the light is bright enough (which most modern ones are extremely bright)in an indoor setting you will light up the whole room just pointing at the ground.

Pointing a handheld at the ceiling is a much better option. Most ceilings are white (at least in homes) and have less obstructions on them, maybe a central light and that's usually about it. The floor can have any number of objects blocking the light such as couches, tables, chairs, beds, desks, etc. The spill from the floor is going to produce a bunch of shadows unless the room is completely empty.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

How do you know where someone is as you turn a corner, open a door toward you, look around an obstruction, etc?

Do you suppose someone could be close enough that you're still covering them at the low ready?

Do you suppose you could be close enough that a startle response trigger pull could put a round in them?

NWIF I'm clearing my own house solely with a WML as long as my son lives with me.

Your call.

 

[Gabriel]

You search your home, and PID any potential targets as friend/foe with the weapon at a low ready. (pointed at the floor) There will be plenty of spill/splash whatever word you want to call it...

In other words, there will be enough reflected light (that's NOT in line with the bore of the weapon) to easily see if any potential target is a "bad guy" breaking in your home, or your college kid coming home for the weekend unannounced.

That's assuming a lot. Have you actually ever taken any low light training?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Several good points in the thread. FWIW, I've done a lot of building clearing in the dark and use both, context dependent. I also came real close to shooting my reflection in a mirror when I was brand new to WML and we were being taught to use it in what would now be considered not best practices ways. Don't target ID with it, unless you're using splash. Dry practice with it. Keep a handheld anyway.

For in your home, you should be able to "precondition" with ambient lighting anyway. Or, roombahs with spot lights on voice command. One of these is serious...

As always, very informative BBI! And humor to boot!

For home defense, I have a shotgun with WML for securing the hallway to the bedrooms while awaiting the arrival of the police... this is for windows breaking, door being kicked in scenarios. For "what was that noise" scenarios... hand held light and handgun pointed in safe direction (down).

For outside the home, as a civilian, I have a hard time seeing a scenario that I need a WML other than complete failure of situational awareness... so just an EDC handheld light. As a civilian, "building clearing" for me means getting out of the building I'll let the pros do the other version.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I stopped searching buildings with my handgun out quite a few years ago. Now I only draw it past retention and keep it there while searching with a handheld.

Same. When they were new and shiny and gadget-itis had me I searched with it all the time. Then I figured out some issues with it and started doing the hybrid approach. If I'm alone, I'm searching in the same manner you are. When I was a field sergeant I would be with others and use a long gun. My clearing days as a professional are pretty much over now unless things are really really really bad, but at home I'm still using a handheld.

 

[MikeDVB]

Whatever light you use - you generally don't want it to be a 'toggle' switch or one that stays on when pressed until pressed again.

My lights all have two-stage switches allowing me to press lightly to be able to see without blinding myself but I can press harder to get full light to blind my target if necessary.

I do my best to train with them so that in a stressful situation I don't make a big mistake like blinding myself.

I don't know if WML's have two-stage switches but IIRC they're generally not as bright as the stand-alone models.

Personally I wouldn't want to be investigating a "bump in the night" without a light. The last thing you want to do is to fire your firearm without being absolutely sure what you're shooting at.

I suppose you could turn your lights on - I myself have smart lights and can light up the whole house with a simple voice command or tap of a button on my phone - but I haven't personally decided if that's what I'd want to do. I think, perhaps, turning all of the lights on in the house would bring attention to whoever was in the house that they are known and it might inspire them to leave before bad things happen.... Maybe.

At one point I had a WML but there are situations where I want light without drawing my firearm - and there are situations where I can carry the light but not the firearm. I prefer to keep them separate.

That said - my rifle does have a WML as I'm not about to try holding that and a light at the same time.