Legalize It All? Harper's Weekly

[Kirk Freeman]

Dan Baum in Harper's Weekly writes a thought provoking article--to say the least--about how to win the War on Drugs.

Thought it would be of interest to INGO.

http://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/1/

 

[Jludo]

Let's do it. I'm sure the constitutionalists on here agree the feds shouldnt be in the drug enforcement business.

 

[Shadow8088]

I kind of like how some other countries are treating it. Treat the addiction and decriminalize it. But.. ya know.. it costs money and stuff that wouldn't line the pockets of the police militia.

 

[PaulF]

Freedom isn't always pretty.

Free people have the right to poison themselves.

Free people have the right to kill themselves.

 

[Leadeye]

I don't see this happening, the legal part of Drugs Inc. is all the money spent and jobs provided assisting, managing, and incarcerating the illegal end of Drugs Inc. One will not exist without the other and the employment of people on both sides of the business gets larger every day. It's a growing, self sustaining part of the service economy.

Always follow the money

 

[OakRiver]

The funny thing is that for all the claims from the anti-gunners that they want to reduce gun violence they rarely (if ever) advocate this, which would in fact reduce gun deaths caused by gang violence and not impact the right of the law abiding to keep and bear arms.

This would also have the added benefit of reducing the non-violent prison population and freeing up space so that violent offenders are no longer on parole because we lack space in the prisons for them.

 

[cobber]

I don't see this happening, the legal part of Drugs Inc. is all the money spent and jobs provided assisting, managing, and incarcerating the illegal end of Drugs Inc. One will not exist without the other and the employment of people on both sides of the business gets larger every day. It's a growing, self sustaining part of the service economy.

Always follow the money

I kind of like how some other countries are treating it. Treat the addiction and decriminalize it. But.. ya know.. it costs money and stuff that wouldn't line the pockets of the police militia.

The upside is that addiction treatment is free, and the money diverted from law enforcement will just stay with the taxpayers... ?


Our society grooms substance abuse beginning with big pharma. As long as licit pushing is allowed, good luck stopping illegal drugs or treating addiction in any meaningful way.

 

[Denny347]

Read "Chasing the Scream" It's an eye opening and thought provoking book about the history of the "War on Drugs" and legalization.

 

[cobber]

After telling the BBC in December that “if you fight a war for forty years and don’t win, you have to sit down and think about other things to do that might be more effective,” Colombian president Juan Manuel Santos legalized medical marijuana by decree.

And about that "War on Poverty" LBJ started in the 60's?

 

[Denny347]

And about that "War on Poverty" LBJ started in the 60's?

Any time we declare "War on xyz..." just know it cost us Billions with little to show for it.

 

[Shadow8088]

The upside is that addiction treatment is free, and the money diverted from law enforcement will just stay with the taxpayers... ?


Our society grooms substance abuse beginning with big pharma. As long as licit pushing is allowed, good luck stopping illegal drugs or treating addiction in any meaningful way.

Imagine for a moment that we stopped throwing billions at incarcerating or finding ways to catch our citizens (and making HUGE profits off of it i.e. for-profit prisons) and instead threw that money at HELPING them instead of making them unemployable drains on society (repeat offenders or unable to find work that pays a living wage). I know, it's a stretch around here.. helping those that can't or won't help themselves is strictly verboten... but the end result is one less thing our country isn't Number 1 at number of incarcerated people

 

[halfmileharry]

The funny thing is that for all the claims from the anti-gunners that they want to reduce gun violence they rarely (if ever) advocate this, which would in fact reduce gun deaths caused by gang violence and not impact the right of the law abiding to keep and bear arms.

This would also have the added benefit of reducing the non-violent prison population and freeing up space so that violent offenders are no longer on parole because we lack space in the prisons for them.

The drug trade increases violence. There will be no shortage of criminals

 

[pudly]

Academic debates like this always amuse me. I'll believe full legalization is best when you aren't concerned if your bus driver or doctor are high when they are providing your service. We should also get rid of all state-enforced restrictions against tobacco while we're at it.

 

[PaulF]

The bus company or hospital should still be free to drug test and deny or terminate employment based on the results.

There is no reason for the government to be involved in that interaction.

However, I really don't care if my bus driver or doctor smokes pot on his time off.

 

[OakRiver]

Academic debates like this always amuse me. I'll believe full legalization is best when you aren't concerned if your bus driver or doctor are high when they are providing your service.

Is there cause for concern that your bus driver or doctor is under the influence of alcohol when they are providing their service? After all alcohol was a proscribed substance for a long time that was still available through illicit channels and of dubious provenance.
Because I might argue for legalization of certain substances does not equate to people being able to consume them without penalty any more than saying that restrictions being lifted on gun ownership means I believe that people should be at liberty to shoot whomever they see fit.

We should also get rid of all state-enforced restrictions against tobacco while we're at it.

Which state-enforced restrictions are you opposed to?

 

[OakRiver]

The bus company or hospital should still be free to drug test and deny or terminate employment based on the results.

There is no reason for the government to be involved in that interaction.

However, I really don't care if my bus driver or doctor smokes pot on his time off.

Absolute agreement

 

[pudly]

1) Because I might argue for legalization of certain substances does not equate to people being able to consume them without penalty
2) any more than saying that restrictions being lifted on gun ownership means I believe that people should be at liberty to shoot whomever they see fit.

Ummm.... These two are not even close to the same.

I understand that people don't like the costs to society of drug enforcement and the resulting crime. That is a very visible and reasonably quantifiable problem. I just wonder how many are intellectually honest enough to consider the downsides to full decriminalization.

First, drug use will rise by a large amount once prices drop and legal restrictions are removed. There will be more people losing or never being able to gain jobs due to failed drug tests. This will drive a lot of people to worse economic conditions than our current world. More accidents of all forms leading to more injured innocents. Peoples lives ruined (both bystanders and drug users). More jobs for lawyers and doctors as drug use rises (I can hear the cheers now in certain sectors).

We've all seen the before & after pictures of drug users. Those physical changes aren't from law enforcement. They are from drug use and its affect on the human body. Just think about that fact that people are saying they want more of these:

Drug Users before & after

I don't have the answers to make everything all unicorns and rainbows, but I know for a fact that "improving" the world without considering the consequences has a poor track record.

 

[pudly]

The bus company or hospital should still be free to drug test and deny or terminate employment based on the results.

There is no reason for the government to be involved in that interaction.

However, I really don't care if my bus driver or doctor smokes pot on his time off.

I don't either, but this thread is much deeper than smoking pot on your time off. One question, and I don't know the answer. Can all drug tests differentiate between drug use on the job and on your own time?

 

[ruger1800]

Nike

 

[OakRiver]

Ummm.... These two are not even close to the same.

I understand that people don't like the costs to society of drug enforcement and the resulting crime. That is a very visible and reasonably quantifiable problem. I just wonder how many are intellectually honest enough to consider the downsides to full decriminalization.

First, drug use will rise by a large amount once prices drop and legal restrictions are removed. There will be more people losing or never being able to gain jobs due to failed drug tests. This will drive a lot of people to worse economic conditions than our current world. More accidents of all forms leading to more injured innocents. Peoples lives ruined (both bystanders and drug users). More jobs for lawyers and doctors as drug use rises (I can hear the cheers now in certain sectors).

With the utmost respect this sounds like something very similar to "The streets will run red with blood" every time gun laws are relaxed. Because Portugal's
decriminalization of drugs show the opposite of what you are saying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

We've all seen the before & after pictures of drug users. Those physical changes aren't from law enforcement. They are from drug use and its affect on the human body. Just think about that fact that people are saying they want more of these:

Drug Users before & after

And? I don't think that anyone is arguing that heavy use of drugs, especially those made by criminals with a view to maximizing profit, is in any way beneficial to your health. Alcohol, tobacco, high fructose corn syrup, etc. are also not good for your health. However we trust people to be adults with those substances.

I do not recall saying that I "want more of these" any more than by saying that by wanting relaxed gun control I want more Sandy Hooks, compete with those before and after pictures.