You have your reaction, the people have theirs
That's little consolation to your family if you're the one that gets shot by the side of the road over being just a little too gung ho, by some jackwagon who was a little too gung ho.
You have your reaction, the people have theirs
Here is a guy to shed some light on this. I understand what you are saying. Now to ask you some questions. I'm not looking to tell you how to conduct your job, just looking for some serious discussion.
I have been stopped like this. If not by you then by an officer who conducts himself the same way. My question; do you consider the possible ramifications of approaching my car with your hand on your gun? When I see this in my mirror, and I HAVE more than once, I am threatened. My first thought is "Where is MY gun?". Is that the thought you want to be in my head at this point? I often see cops leaning on their gun like it is a counter-top or something, an unconscious mannerism brought on by the comfortable ever present object on their belt, one of the several objects there. This is not threatening. I have on other occasions saw an officer with his hand deliberately on his gun and a demeanor that he is considering drawing it at any moment. This is threatening. Have you considered that you are telegraphing your insecurity and thereby escalated the possibility of a problem several levels even before first contact?
I am not the only civilian who responds to an overt threat in kind. I am not likely to take your bullet simply because you have the legal authority to shoot at people at random and I don't. There is a disconnect between what the law requires and what is a normal common response that any average person might have. I am supposed to submit to your drawing and possibly shooting me, but you could be betting your life that I will respond in this UNNATURAL and conditioned way. It's possible that I will think " Sorry, I go home at the end of my shift if I have anything to say about it". (I know that you cannot deny this sentiment.... It is YOUR quote)
I am not being an internet tough guy. I am being realistic. I know myself and I know how I react to certain stimulus. As for myself, it's much safer to show some courage when confronting me than it is to try to rely on intimidation. I concede that your intent may not to be intimidating but rather your only concern is to be ready for a problem. You may even feel that we BOTH are safer if you are commanding the situation. What you may not know is that there are more people than you know who are just like me. Instead of commanding the situation, you have needlessly endangered both of us and the general public to boot, by SHOWING insecurity in a threatening way.
It's pretty clearly a reference to the fact Indiana still has a death penalty, and murdering someone can get you in that strappy table. You say you wouldn't stop and say you'd respond to an overt threat and the implication sounds pretty close to saying you'd shoot a cop for having his gun out as he walked up to your car. What would you do on a felony stop? Where the guns were actually pointed at you?
I answered you honestly, but I will also say if a motorist fled and then escalated the situation by pulling a gun because of some paranoid fantasy of police randomly shooting compliant motorists, if I'm the cop I'll shoot you and if I'm the jury I'll vote to put a needle in your arm. That's not a threat, that's a fact.
So the simple lesson is, of course we both want to go home. So pull over when I'm behind you with lights and sirens and do what I tell you to do for the duration of the traffic stop. Stop pretending its reasonable to assume I'm pulling you over to murder you or that I'll negligently shoot you with a gun behind my leg, where if I negligently shoot anyone it'll be me. Then neither of us gets shot, arrested, or executed...and we both get to go home.
Not me! I go out in the driveway guns a blazing!I always do.
My "paranoia" was learned under sheriff McAtee. BehindBlueEyes, you gave a list of "When was the last time" questions. The answer to those questions is "When (ever) a McAtee was in charge.
I HAVE been a victim of McAtee's Gestapo in the past. I know that was a long time ago. It is the experience from that time that ALL of you officers are being painted with even today by very many Indy citizens my age and older. The sins of the fathers falling on the sons, as it were. I suppose that this is extremely unfair. Sorry. I remember when NOT running from the police was a fatal decision. Back then you never stopped unless there were witnesses.
Mayor Ballard ran on the platform (among others) of cleaning out the rat's nest that was the Indy police presence, and has done very well. I saw a thing that was reminiscent of my youth and wondered if we were doing that again, and just when I was thinking that things seem different than before. I thought I would ask about it. Of course the typical macho us vs the turds has to make its appearance..... maybe things are not as different as I was thinking it was after all. That's all I wanted to know
I have answered my front door like that before.
Ok, what compliant motorist was shot under McAtee?
Ballard cleaning out the "rat's nest" is bull****. There was no rat's nest to clean out when Ballard took office. That is largely an invention of Straub, inventing a problem then "fixing" it for political gain.
You want to go home safe, but let me ask you this: How is a hidden handgun any more threatening to you, as a compliant motorist, than a holstered handgun. If I want to murder you, that's what the difference will be? If there's an ND, is it pointed at you? Come on. You know good and well that this isn't logical and there is exactly ZERO more or less threat with either approach to you as the motorist. If the goal is for both of us to go home at the end of the stop, stop talking yourself into seeing a threat where there is none. It's not macho or "us vs them" to point out the simple reality that cops aren't hit squads, that its murder to shoot someone who is acting in their official capacity.
Threat huh. "poisoned by a cops dope" high drama indeed.
A hidden handgun is indication that the decision to kill me has already been made. You are approaching MY car ALREADY with the resolution to take my life.
I haven't made a judgment against what I saw last night, yet. I did recognize that he was making every effort to hide that he was prepared to wail lead. It was my impression that he was not acting in an intimidating manner, from the drivers perspective at least. I appreciate his consideration for the driver, really. The thought just struck me that it was very possible that I have been under the gun without my knowledge before too. This makes me very uncomfortable. I wonder how common it is. A few people admitted that they do this occasionally, Occasionally is more acceptable to me than always.
I DO have an opinion on approaching me with the hand right on the weapon. I am threatened at this point. It makes me think about my gun right when that thought is the last kind of thinking the officer wants from me. I demand everything an officer demands, such as respect, a civil tone AND to go home tonight. These standards are not just the purview of the police but MY right as well. When an officer demands "Officer Safety" but does it at the expense of MY SAFETY...... That's not going to work for me. I am not alone feeling like this. It is not safe, or in the interest of public safety in general. If I got testy it was on this subject.
My "paranoia" was learned under sheriff McAtee. BehindBlueEyes, you gave a list of "When was the last time" questions. The answer to those questions is "When (ever) a McAtee was in charge.
I HAVE been a victim of McAtee's Gestapo in the past. I know that was a long time ago. It is the experience from that time that ALL of you officers are being painted with even today by very many Indy citizens my age and older. The sins of the fathers falling on the sons, as it were. I suppose that this is extremely unfair. Sorry. I remember when NOT running from the police was a fatal decision. Back then you never stopped unless there were witnesses.
Mayor Ballard ran on the platform (among others) of cleaning out the rat's nest that was the Indy police presence, and has done very well. I saw a thing that was reminiscent of my youth and wondered if we were doing that again, and just when I was thinking that things seem different than before. I thought I would ask about it. Of course the typical macho us vs the turds has to make its appearance..... maybe things are not as different as I was thinking it was after all. That's all I wanted to know