Well said Jim.For the many reason of gun ownership, Competition trumps them all as it demands the commitment, perseverance, diligence, humility, education and practice of developing a better skill set. It separates the casual gun owner from a shootist. To do it right, you learn gunsmithing, handloading, equipment fails and etc. Competition forces you to get in the practice and trigger time that is far more valuable than taking a "class" and returning your piece to the sock drawer. Above all, it tests your accountability to master the craft. No other reason for owning a gun (Hunting, Military or Police, (with exception of those M&P that work at it past normal requirements) Merchant, Collecting, or Protection measures or improves your ongoing skillset better than competing. EOS.
The simple answer to the question is, of course there is value in it. For a whole bunch of reasons. It is not tactical training, but it has a lot of benefits besides just being fun.
But that kind-of misstates the argument, too, and "getting robbed at gunpoint" isn't the only practical scenario in life. Nobody in the thread is saying progress to Master Class. The message is, "get out there and test yourself, even if you suck."I don't think the argument has ever been if competition increases your gun handling skills or not. The argument normally boils down to you do unrealistic things in competition compared to real world shooting and you will subconciously then do those things under the stress of a real event or that competition-specific equipment doesn't readily translate to real world carry gear. Neither of those things is much of a hurdle to overcome, IMO. If you go for a draw when someone has a gun pointed at you like you'd go from a surrender position in response to a beep, you're probably going to get shot. That doesn't mean competition will get you killed, it means:
The biggest "danger" is to believe competition is all there is to being prepared, that technical ability with the gun is what decides the winners and losers of gunfights. It doesn't. It is one component, but it is not the entirety, and in most cases not even the biggest component.
Technical ability approaches diminishing returns much earlier than many realize or want to admit. Chasing tenths of a second, getting a blazing fast draw, working speed reloads, etc. are all things that will move you up the ranks in competition but really aren't what's going to make a difference if someone tries to rob you at gunpoint. A solid level of competency when combined with a solid MUC game and knowledge of pre-attack indicators, a confidence in one's understanding of legal rights and "trip wires" so as to avoid hesitation, etc. are all going to matter more than someone's reload speed or a 1.3 second draw vs a 1.1 second draw.
But that kind-of misstates the argument, too, and "getting robbed at gunpoint" isn't the only practical scenario in life. Nobody in the thread is saying progress to Master Class. The message is, "get out there and test yourself, even if you suck."
You seem to have taken offense, but none is intended. I double-read your post, and what you're basically saying is it doesn't take being a "9" or "10" in marksmanship / gunhandling...and in fact, someone who's a 9.5 there but a "3" in the other departments, is probably not as well-prepared for the "real world" as someone who's a solid 6 or 7 in all categories.You quoted me, but you don't seem to be responding to what I wrote. I think you've largely invented an argument, assigned it to me, then argued against it.
Perfect timing. At the match tonite, I was asked by an INGOER to explain my years of comments when I speak of ability driven accessories or training. I thought of this thread as this INGOER has decided (after years of reading magazine ads and watching you tube shooting university and buying the latest Supercool gadget of the week) to jump in and have some great fun and at the same time be helped by many seasoned shooters and also got his eyes opened wide.
Another shooter came by and made the statement that PCC or CO would be towards the top in the scores and that’s why they win. While it is true that 3 of the top 5 used CO, first and second went to production shooters.
The message here is, ANYONE in the top 10 of any match, has earned it, the hard way. Regardless of the tool they used. In other words, their skill set (ability) led them to master whatever the next greatest gun of the week will be.
There were many that had the latest race holsters and pricey guns and the latest gadgets but NOT the skill set stepping stones that it takes to get there.
My advice is to master the very basics with a basic gun and basic holster and then move up to the next level. The fundamentals are the same for all levels or with any pistol you can handle. If you are not getting there, then quit trying to buy your way to the top, get professional training and then work your axx off for it.
But, for all the competitors tonight, no matter where they placed in the match, the biggest win, is the self awareness and measurement of what you need to work on and the fact that you are now not walking around with a false sense of security. Even last place wins the fact that he wants to be a responsible gun owner.
So yeah, shooting sports rule!
Good point. An interesting statistic would be how many Competitors are not defense driven enough to carry. When IDPA started in ‘97 it was to cater closer to the street guy, however , the “gun ups” in that game also involves equipment that may not be the best choice for street carry.I think the "tactical" training proponents should have score sheets laying around at the rate of 20% of their training certificates. The competition guys, with a lot more "paper," should have maybe 5% training class certs vs their score sheets.
Too many of us fall for the stereotypes that others with more talk than experience express.
There is some truth to the saying that "your competition will get you killed." At the same time, a skilled comp shooter, shooting on the move, might just beat a drawn gun?
I've seen a fair amount of crap out of both sides. Poor to borderline dangerous gun handling in training classes, with some trainers flirting with it as a sales tactic. "Big boy rules." The other end is the very large percentage of competition guys who, after the match, don't gun up for the trip home.