Mosinowner
Grandmaster
- Aug 1, 2011
- 5,927
- 38
I say self defense. He got attacked at the end of it.
I say self defense. He got attacked at the end of it.
He didn't start the fight, the 'partiers' drove to him in a truck. They could have just gotten back in the truck and left just as he could have left. But, would you turn your back on a truck full of people that don't like you? They also made threats against his life, which genuinely would put the fear of death into anyone standing alone against a truck-load of rednecks. It is hard to tell since he put the camera down, but since that guy was laughing manically and it was so loud (indicating he had to be close) I would say the guy rushed him. Maybe he had a weapon, maybe he didn't, but you can't let someone rush you since they could take your gun away and use it on you. I think a murder sentence would be harsh, both parties did wrong here. He should have tried to retreat, slowly walking backwards, but the guys shouldn't have drove down to him in the first place or made threats against his life. I would say anything more than a manslaughter conviction would be too harsh but he deserves at least that much.
You guys must have missed the part where he was convicted and is serving 40 years for MURDER.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
If I'm on the jury, I'm convicting him because of his video.
Without the video "evidence" I don't know.
And no, I'm not just convicting him of being a douche bag, which he is.
They would never permit it but if I'm on the jury there would be no conviction. I don't care where he was standing, he was attacked by superior numbers. If carrying the camera somehow indicated premeditation then what is strapping on a weapon before leaving your home?
You guys must have missed the part where he was convicted and is serving 40 years for MURDER.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Sorry, but I just can't feel sorry for someone who goes to jail for shooting someone when they were the ones who escalated the situation in the first place.
Call the friggin' police if you have an obnoxious neighbor. No one's life was in danger.
I'm not even saying he should be in prison right now, I'm saying I don't feel sorry for him, because he could have avoided it.
Who said anything about feeling sorry for him?
But your first sentence is exactly why I have a problem with the whole "Who escalated" argument. Somebody always has the opportunity to de-escalate. Why aren't the party-goers responsible for the shootings because they didn't go in and call the police on the crazy man out in the road? You're holding Raul to that standard. Why aren't you holding them to that standard? Raul hadn't used forced against them, so where was their "right" to get up in his face and do the stupid **** they do that undeniably added its own escalation to the incident. Why aren't you saying they are the ones that escalated since it's absolutely clear that they took it to the next level by upping the ante and responding in kind?
Regarding your last sentence, did he violate anybody's rights by walking in the public thoroughfare and filming the visible-from-the-street activities going on at the house? Were his actions prior to the confrontation with the party-goers illegal? Why aren't you saying the party-goers initiated escalation by confronting him?
Let's say I'm at the gas station filling up the truck. Some douche is behaving stupidly and questionably but isn't bothering me in any manner. Now let's say I pipe up and throw a "Dude, really. You're stupid. STFU and GTFO. You're bothering people and me specifically." or something like that his direction. It sets him off and he comes at me. I have to defend myself now. Who escalated in that situation?
Risky behavior is just that, and it shouldn't really be a surprise to the person doing it (or anybody else) if the adverse consequences happen. But that in no way makes the person responsible for the actions of another. Who initiated force first? Nothing else matters because both parties still have the opportunity to walk away.
Some of you keep saying he should have called the police. In the article and the video, he did call the police and it wasn't the first time. He wasn't on their property and was filming the noise to prove later that they were too loud. Those people decided to load up in a truck and go stir up trouble with the guy, this guy didn't walk up to them and start yelling so he isn't at fault. Another crooked DA looking for easy numbers in an anti-gun society. I bet there wasn't a single gun owner on that jury.