Indianapolis PD firearm seizure, no return

[Trigger Time]

Just FYI... I've contacted a lawyer to help get back my seized property. Let's see what happens first; getting my "still hurting off and on twisted knee" approved for an MRI by my insurance company or getting my pistol back. Next week gets close to 5 damn months!!!

Good to hear. I hope the lawyer can make the court hold them accountable and maybe change the process to help others who are also wronged by it.

It is sad that many times our government, that is supposed to work for our benefit, only responds to us after lawsuits are won or filed

 

[bwframe]

With paying the ambulance chaser, how many times do you end up paying for your own gun?

Back to my same question on insurance. How long before you can make an insurance claim that IMPD has stolen your firearm?

 

[seedubs1]

That's already been discussed. It's the police that are holding it, so the insurance company won't recognize it as stolen.

It'd go like this:
- Try to file with insurance.
- Insurance asks for police report of stolen property.
- Police won't file a report because they have it and don't recognize it as stolen.
- Insurance won't accept claim because the gun isn't stolen.

Basically.....the gun is not "legally" stolen. So the insurance company isn't going to do anything for you.

Back to my same question on insurance. How long before you can make an insurance claim that IMPD has stolen your firearm?

 

[bwframe]

Stolen is stolen. If they won't give it back, it's stolen, cops or not.

 

[WebSnyper]

That's already been discussed. It's the police that are holding it, so the insurance company won't recognize it as stolen.

It'd go like this:
- Try to file with insurance.
- Insurance asks for police report of stolen property.
- Police won't file a report because they have it and don't recognize it as stolen.
- Insurance won't accept claim because the gun isn't stolen.

Basically.....the gun is not "legally" stolen. So the insurance company isn't going to do anything for you.

I'm guessing most insurance policies exclude this type of thing, unless there is some loss of use coverage. That's just a guess as I'm not looking at my homeowner's policy currently.

 

[seedubs1]

Legally.....you're wrong.

What makes sense.....you're right.

If you really want to make your head explode, read more into civil forfeiture. Your property has to prove it's innocence (because that makes sense.....right???). In these cases, the burden of proof is not on them to prove your property was implicated in illegal activity as it's your property that's on trial, not a person. There's no need for them to even charge you with anything to take your property. And it's essentially impossible to prove a negative (to prove your property was not implicated in any illegal activity). So legally, they can take your property, there's incentive because they get to keep it, and it's almost impossible for you to get it back.

"It's like pennies from heaven."
[video=youtube;ipHUN-xLLms]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipHUN-xLLms[/video]

Stolen is stolen. If they won't give it back, it's stolen, cops or not.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Stolen is stolen. If they won't give it back, it's stolen, cops or not.

its part of an investigation. Them not returning it is no more stealing it from you than holding you against your will in a jail cell for a short time while your case is investigated is kidnapping. In both cases you are both released as soon as they are done investigating.

The key is getting them concerned with being expeditious. Until they want to do it, it wont get done. Just look at VUPD's stories where he all but had to grab the supervisor's hand and move it across the paper for her with a pen in it to get her to sign the release. Even showing up and applying direct, polite pressure was hardly enough to get her to move.

 

[MCgrease08]

So I finally get to the range yesterday to test fire my recovered and now returned to me pistol.

It cleaned up OK and I got most of the rust off and gave it a good lube job.

Anyway, I started off with the ball ammo that had been in the mag when they returned it to me. Not sure on the brand b/c it had been empty when it was stolen, but figured why not try to fire the random gang bangers choice brand.

I insert mag and rack the slide, but slide won't go into battery. I eject the round, try the next one. Same story. Won't go into battery. I eject again, try a third round but get same result. I triple check to make sure it's the correct caliber (9mm). It is.

OK I figure, must be the ammo. Not gonna mess with that any more. I brought my own that I trust, let's try that. I load a single round in the mag and chamber it. This time slide goes into battery. Yippie I think.

I take aim at the target, pull the trigger, hammer drops, no bang.

I keep the gun pointed down range for the requisite 30 seconds or so, thinking it may be a hang fire. Nope.

I eject the round and check the primer. No dimple, so it's not a light strike. I try again. Same result. No bang, no dimple.

At first I think maybe the hammer is off kilter and isn't making contact to activate the firing pin. Frustrated, I case the pistol and switch to a different gun for the rest of the session. (Fortunate for me I had brought one. I would have been pissed had I paid for an hour and had no other guns to shoot.)

Cut to today when I have a chance to sit down and look at the gun, dry fire a few times. Upon closer inspection, the hammer seems to be making contact, but it appears the damn firing pin is missing.

I have no idea if IMPD would have removed it, or why. But I was told they had done a test fire to check ballistics when it was first recovered, so it must have still had the firing pin in it at that point.

Not sure if I send it back to Bersa CS, if they'd replacing the firing pin for free or not. I think it's probably a good idea to have them look it over regardless, to see what else may be missing.

I'm pretty darn ticked off right now.

 

[edporch]

So I finally get to the range yesterday to test fire my recovered and now returned to me pistol.

It cleaned up OK and I got most of the rust off and gave it a good lube job.

Anyway, I started off with the ball ammo that had been in the mag when they returned it to me. Not sure on the brand b/c it had been empty when it was stolen, but figured why not try to fire the random gang bangers choice brand.

I insert mag and rack the slide, but slide won't go into battery. I eject the round, try the next one. Same story. Won't go into battery. I eject again, try a third round but get same result. I triple check to make sure it's the correct caliber (9mm). It is.

OK I figure, must be the ammo. Not gonna mess with that any more. I brought my own that I trust, let's try that. I load a single round in the mag and chamber it. This time slide goes into battery. Yippie I think.

I take aim at the target, pull the trigger, hammer drops, no bang.

I keep the gun pointed down range for the requisite 30 seconds or so, thinking it may be a hang fire. Nope.

I eject the round and check the primer. No dimple, so it's not a light strike. I try again. Same result. No bang, no dimple.

At first I think maybe the hammer is off kilter and isn't making contact to activate the firing pin. Frustrated, I case the pistol and switch to a different gun for the rest of the session. (Fortunate for me I had brought one. I would have been pissed had I paid for an hour and had no other guns to shoot.)

Cut to today when I have a chance to sit down and look at the gun, dry fire a few times. Upon closer inspection, the hammer seems to be making contact, but it appears the damn firing pin is missing.

I have no idea if IMPD would have removed it, or why. But I was told they had done a test fire to check ballistics when it was first recovered, so it must have still had the firing pin in it at that point.

Not sure if I send it back to Bersa CS, if they'd replacing the firing pin for free or not. I think it's probably a good idea to have them look it over regardless, to see what else may be missing.

I'm pretty darn ticked off right now.

If they test fired it as they claim, then obviously somebody who had access to it decided to steal your firing pin.
You have every right to be ticked off, and they should be responsible for replacing your firing pin, as it MUST'VE been there when they took custody of it and test fired it.

 

[bwframe]

its part of an investigation. Them not returning it is no more stealing it from you than holding you against your will in a jail cell for a short time while your case is investigated is kidnapping. In both cases you are both released as soon as they are done investigating...

If I read it correctly, Hop's gun seized by the police was just that. There is NO investigation. He was in an accident.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[Joniki]

Is it possible IMPD pulled the firing pin to match up to the strike on the primer?

 

[MCgrease08]

Is it possible IMPD pulled the firing pin to match up to the strike on the primer?

I'm not really sure what's going on or what to think.

I don't want to accuse anyone or any agency until I am certain it's missing.

I did not completely break down the gun, but I did dry fire with the barrel removed so I could visually check to see if the firing pin was protruding out into the chamber when the hammer dropped. I did not see that.

There could be a chance that somehow the pin is still in there, but the tip was somehow damaged or broke off.

This is not a pistol design I feel real comfortable about completely disassembling. I think I'm just going to send it back to Bersa and let them deal with it.

 

[Anima mundi]

its part of an investigation. Them not returning it is no more stealing it from you than holding you against your will in a jail cell for a short time while your case is investigated is kidnapping. In both cases you are both released as soon as they are done investigating.

this is a good point except for it being completely wrong and you being willfully ignorant of the situation to excuse an awful procedure which does damage to citizens and for which none of the public servants involved are held accountable.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

This thread is full of gems.

 

[Cameramonkey]

this is a good point except for it being completely wrong and you being willfully ignorant of the situation to excuse an awful procedure which does damage to citizens and for which none of the public servants involved are held accountable.

How is this statement wrong? As my 7th grade math teacher would say "show your work".

I was merely stating fact in regards to department policy and their insistence to test each and every gun that they receive to prove its innocence. (see what I did there?) I do not agree with the practice.

How is them temporarily holding a gun until they have tested it theft? That is the crux of my point since it was suggested that it's "temporary hold" status be filed with insurance as theft. It is not theft.

I dont agree with it. I was just pointing out the fact that it is not theft but something else.

Oh, and that we both agree it is abhorrent and wrong. Also, it appears to align with the newfound BS of collecting DNA from arrestees so they can tie them to other crimes "just in case".

 

[croy]

Colorado Gun Works is in Indiana towards Bloomington who handles Bersa warranty work. May be worth giving them a call and see about dropping it off if you did not want to ship it.

 

[Hop]

If I read it correctly, Hop's gun seized by the police was just that. There is NO investigation. He was in an accident.

Correct.

So my paperwork is apparently buried on Sandy / Sandra Cottey's desk. Does anyone know if this is a relative to former sheriff Cottey?

 

[Notalentbum]

Correct.

So my paperwork is apparently buried on Sandy / Sandra Cottey's desk. Does anyone know if this is a relative to former sheriff Cottey?

Circle gets the square! Can you say nepotism!








Honestly I have no idea on relationship.

Matt

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Correct.

So my paperwork is apparently buried on Sandy / Sandra Cottey's desk. Does anyone know if this is a relative to former sheriff Cottey?

All of the Cotteys are related.