Indiana Gun Sale to Active Military Member

[wrgould3]

In 20 years of private gun transactions, I've never encountered the situation that has popped up. I have a private gun transaction possibility where the purchaser shares that he is a resident of Indiana but doesn't have an IN license as he is active military. I believe he has a TN license. Question: Is it permissible to sell to someone with this framework (not that I intend to, just curious if active miliary somehow bypasses everything I thought I knew about private in-state gun transactions)?

 

[Bleachey]

The whole time I was in the military I maintained my Indiana Drivers License and residency, even though I technically lived in other places. I did register vehicles in California as I guess I was a resident of both states.

 

[actaeon277]

I don't know if this helps

What documentation does a member of the military on active duty need to present to acquire a firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

An active duty military member may establish residency by presenting permanent change of station (PCS) orders and a valid military photo identification card (see ATF Ruling 2001-5). The PCS orders may be either paper or electronic, as stated in the Form 4473 instructions for item 26c, “Licensees...

www.atf.gov

What documentation does a member of the military on active duty need to present to acquire a firearm?​

An active duty military member may establish residency by presenting permanent change of station (PCS) orders and a valid military photo identification card (see ATF Ruling 2001-5). The PCS orders may be either paper or electronic, as stated in the Form 4473 instructions for item 26c, “Licensees may accept electronic PCS orders to establish residency.”
Spouses and other dependents of an active duty military member may not claim residency using PCS orders, as 18 U.S.C. 921(b) applies only to members of the Armed Forces.
A military member claiming residency in a state in which he or she is present with the intention of making a home must demonstrate that residency to the federal firearms licensee (FFL) by presenting a valid identification document, or a combination of valid, government issued documents, to satisfy the identification document requirement.

 

[bwframe]

IIRC, you as the private seller are under no obligation to have to prove your buyer's residency. The same as selling to a felon, you don't have to verify, just not knowingly do it.

If I'm selling to an INGOer in the middle of the state, I'd have no reason to argue with an active military man.

That's just me though. You gotta do you.

 

[gassprint1]

If he has a valid Tennessee license, then that person is a resident of that state. Put 2 n 2 together.. active military in Tennessee, has a valid license in Tennessee, means the person lives in Tennessee= resident of that state.
You could always sell to the perons family member of Indiana providing they are a proper person.

 

[MrSmitty]

At Academy we can sell to an active duty member, if he has orders assigning them to a duty station in Indiana..

 

[1775usmarine]

Sounds like the scam with shipping vehicles but with firearms.

 

[actaeon277]

If he has a valid Tennessee license, then that person is a resident of that state. Put 2 n 2 together.. active military in Tennessee, has a valid license in Tennessee, means the person lives in Tennessee= resident of that state.
You could always sell to the perons family member of Indiana providing they are a proper person.

Not necessarily.
While stationed in Virginia, I had the option to get Virginia driver's license.
Yet, I still paid Indiana State Taxes. Military has different rules, dependent on each different State.
I kept my driver's license. But had Virginia plates. And a 'city sticker' for Norfolk.

It's kinda a pain in the butt, especially when you transfer from base to base.
Half the time you have to see JAG to figure it out.

 

[Creedmoor]

If he has a valid Tennessee license, then that person is a resident of that state. Put 2 n 2 together.. active military in Tennessee, has a valid license in Tennessee, means the person lives in Tennessee= resident of that state.
You could always sell to the perons family member of Indiana providing they are a proper person.

My sons have drivers licenses in different States than where they are actually are residents and pay taxes.
And both along with their father have bought firearms while being stationed in other States.

 

[Brad69]

I had a Indiana DL my entire 23 years in the Army. I was still a resident of Indiana no matter where I was physically located.

Your orders gives you temporary resident status in that state. You can register cars buy guns hunting and fishing licenses ect.

I got pulled over by a Texas trooper for headlight out.
I had a IN DL but Louisiana plates. This dude put me in the back of the car ready to take me to jail.
I attempted to explain this situation to him. He called his supervisor and let me go.

 

[Ark]

IIRC, you as the private seller are under no obligation to have to prove your buyer's residency. The same as selling to a felon, you don't have to verify, just not knowingly do it.

If I'm selling to an INGOer in the middle of the state, I'd have no reason to argue with an active military man.

That's just me though. You gotta do you.

Once he's volunteered the information that he does not have an IN ID, you can't un-know that and go back to being a blind and ignorant private seller.

 

[singlesix]

Once he's volunteered the information that he does not have an IN ID, you can't un-know that and go back to being a blind and ignorant private seller.

State ID isn't an issue for sales to Active-Duty Military. If his permanent duty station is Indiana then he is considered a resident of Indiana. I ran into this issue several times while on active duty. I learned to ask the base Rod and Gun Club which local shops understood Active-Duty Personnel residence requirements.

Why the hell is it a permanent duty station when you move every 18 to 24 months

 

[STEEL CORE]

As a retired Soldier and former FFL holder, I am not current on the laws now, and no longer have my FFL, but I did transfers to military members with current assignments in Indiana.
But that was then, and this is now, so be carefull.

 

[Ziggidy]

 

[gassprint1]

I had a Indiana DL my entire 23 years in the Army. I was still a resident of Indiana no matter where I was physically located.

Your orders gives you temporary resident status in that state. You can register cars buy guns hunting and fishing licenses ect.

I got pulled over by a Texas trooper for headlight out.
I had a IN DL but Louisiana plates. This dude put me in the back of the car ready to take me to jail.
I attempted to explain this situation to him. He called his supervisor and let me go.

Probably put you in the back seat cause your license was expired by 20 years?

 

[model1994]

I was a civilian but worked for the Army. I was PCSd to Oregon where they have time stipulations for residency eg must live there for 6months or something like that, and maybe some other things. I tried to buy a firearm (vintage .270s are cheap and plentiful out west) but the shop couldn’t figure out if it was legal. So, it seems each state is different on transfers. All that to say; with a private sale i would have no issue doing such a thing with discretion.

edit: now that im rethinking the situation, i may be confusing stipulations for buying resident hunting/fishing licenses as I was trying to do both in that shop. I’ve slept a few times since then

 

[Tactically Fat]

As has been said in the thread: Gun shops are 100% allowed to sell to a .mil member who is in the state on PERMANENT orders. This isn't TDY.

If a literal legit FFL - holder can have the buyer fill out a #4473 and legally sell them a firearm with a copy of the proper paperwork - then what does that tell us about...us?

If you're hinky about it, and believe me, I get it - then why don't you communicate with a few shops around your area and inquire if they'd potentially handle the transfer for you to a .mil member here on PCS. Some of those FFL - holders are probably going to be ignorant, but some probably won't be. Some of them may not be ignorant but still have their own rule in place.

Call around.

(Also - not noted in this thread, but kind of related, - permanent resident aliens can also legally purchase firearms in this state / green-card holders. )

 

[Brad69]

Probably put you in the back seat cause your license was expired by 20 years?

No we renewed when home on leave.

 

[92FSTech]

You could always sell to the perons family member of Indiana providing they are a proper person.

This is very bad advice that could land somebody in prison. Do not attempt to circumvent the law by selling to a family member knowing that the actual intended recipient is someone else that you can't (or think you can't) legally sell to. In this case the seller is already privy to the information, and intent is established. He has a legal and moral obligation to do it right. I'm not a dealer and don't know the legalities of a private sale to an active duty military member, but I do know that facilitating a straw purchase is a huge no-no.

I agree with @Tactically Fat...best approach if you're not feeling confident about it would be to have a local FFL facilitate a transfer. It sucks to have to pay the fee and jump through the hoops, but IMO the $30-$50 is worth the peace of mind to know that you're not going to end up spending a couple of years sharing a cell in BOP with Bubba!

 

[Cameramonkey]

This is very bad advice that could land somebody in prison. Do not attempt to circumvent the law by selling to a family member knowing that the actual intended recipient is someone else that you can't (or think you can't) legally sell to. In this case the seller is already privy to the information, and intent is established. He has a legal and moral obligation to do it right. I'm not a dealer and don't know the legalities of a private sale to an active duty military member, but I do know that facilitating a straw purchase is a huge no-no.

I agree with @Tactically Fat...best approach if you're not feeling confident about it would be to have a local FFL facilitate a transfer. It sucks to have to pay the fee and jump through the hoops, but IMO the $30-$50 is worth the peace of mind to know that you're not going to end up spending a couple of years sharing a cell in BOP with Bubba!

And it doesnt even have to be to bypass the purchaser being an improper person.

There was a father/son duo that got busted over a blue label discount sale. Both were proper persons, but I think it was dad was not a cop, so son bought the gun under the blue label discount for him.

Even though dad was proper, since his cash was used to buy the gun the son physically purchased at a discount, they got busted for an illegal straw purchase. What a crock of