\Don't un-managed forests burn to the ground on their own with some regularity?
Uh.....just so much wrong here. Not really sure where to start.
I take it you haven’t hiked the clear cut sections in MMSF. They aren’t just “growing back” and they weren’t properly “re-planted”. The clear cut sections are now a bunch of sticker bush filled ****holes, and they’re choking out any trees that get started there. Lots of ruined old growth.
I use that forest area very frequently, and what they did pisses me off. I’ll never live long enough to see it how it was.
How would I find one of the workshops? I’m not anti-logger but I need to learn more about forest management......I am a forester and understand management. I encourage the anti logging groups to go to workshops put on by your nrcs, local dnr and learn about timber management.
"I agree wholeheartedly ! Owning some wooded recreational land that borders Owen Putnam State Forest, I see firsthand (unfortunately) the result of the so called "managed logging". Beautiful old growth stands of trees disappear, and like you, I'll never live long enough to see nice regeneration .... if it happens at all ! "
This "old-growth" you are referencing is all second/third growth. Go find some 1935 era aerial photos, you'll see that much of the forested landscape we have now was denuded of trees back then. The reason we have the oak forests we have now is because of the disturbance the settlers did from the mid 1800's to early 1900's. The abuse of the land, burning, grazing etc favored oak regeneration. The constant die back of the oak sapling tops caused the roots systems to build. When the land was abandoned and left alone the oak sprouts took off.
As foresters we need to cause disturbance to maintain Oak for future generations. Our disturbance is logging. Through logging we allow light to the forest floor increasing regeneration. The implementation of fire simulates grazing, it top kills the overstory killing the shallow rooted trees while strengthening the oak root systems. The oaks then have energy to coppice with an advanced root system being able to compete with the faster growing poplar.
Timber is a crop and needs harvested to maintain forest health. What happens to corn when you wait to harvest it in the spring? your yields will suck. Same with timber, when you wait too long you'll find that a large percentage of trees have died and gone down hill. If you believe in God, then you understand that nothing lives forever. Trees don't. You can see it first hand in Spring Mill. Go drive through Donaldson's Woods. You'll see tree after tree standing dead or blown over. Underneath is Beech and Maple (shade tolerant trees) no Oak.
As a forester I don't pick on healthy timber, most regeneration openings I make are of trees that NEED cut. Trees mature, when the stand is overmature and dying then I start it over. You can pick on trees that are going downhill in a stand and realize that all the trees are of the same age class. While some might be healthy they are not long for this world. What I'm saying is if you get the dying/low vigor trees and leave a tree of the same age, likely the tree you leave will be dead when the stand is re-visited 15-20 years down the road. It's like putting a 95 year old person in a nursing home, you might get a few more years but are likely to loose them in the near future. Same with trees, I know its a cruel analogy but it's true. In addition stands are regenerated to remove areas will the trees simply will not improve with time. For example an patch of trees damaged by fire years ago, start them over. Another ex. is to benefit species selection, removing non-native pine the get native hardwoods.
Do this for me, go to a woods that's been cut, count the rings of growth on the stumps. Likely you'll realize that the "old-growth" forest you are in was bare ground not very long ago. Go to those briar thickets filled with wildlife in 15 years and see what it looks like.
I am a forester and understand management. I encourage the anti logging groups to go to workshops put on by your nrcs, local dnr and learn about timber management.
Thanks Yetti.^^Get ahold of the district forester for your area. They will put you on a email list for landowner workshops where local foresters meet at a client property and give educational tours of the woods. You can find your district by getting on IDNR website or going to local nrcs office.
Uh.....just so much wrong here. Not really sure where to start.
I take it you haven’t hiked the clear cut sections in MMSF. They aren’t just “growing back” and they weren’t properly “re-planted”. The clear cut sections are now a bunch of sticker bush filled ****holes, and they’re choking out any trees that get started there. Lots of ruined old growth.
I use that forest area very frequently, and what they did pisses me off. I’ll never live long enough to see it how it was.
Agreed- somebody's pocketing a lot of cash by raping our public forest properties and leaving an unusable s###hole in its place. If they removed or at least stacked the unused tops so the area could still be walked thru/ hunted or otherwise enjoyed, it wouldn't be such a slap in the face.
Agreed- somebody's pocketing a lot of cash by raping our public forest properties and leaving an unusable s###hole in its place. If they removed or at least stacked the unused tops so the area could still be walked thru/ hunted or otherwise enjoyed, it wouldn't be such a slap in the face.
I agree wholeheartedly ! Owning some wooded recreational land that borders Owen Putnam State Forest, I see firsthand (unfortunately) the result of the so called "managed logging". Beautiful old growth stands of trees disappear, and like you, I'll never live long enough to see nice regeneration .... if it happens at all !
It's comments like this that causes our breakdown in meaningful discussion. Who is pocketing a lot of cash, please tell me? If we go back to reality - it all has to be accounted for, and the net revenue accounts for about 70% of the annual operating budget for the DNR forestry section. The rest comes from the state coffers via taxes.
I won't speak to your opinion of the impact, you're entitled to your opinion, but remember the forest isn't necessarily there just for you and to provide easy walking, easy hunting, etc The state forest is there for timber management primarily
There's where we disagree- timber management is maintenance, not the reason for the forests existence. The mess the loggers leave behind is sloppy and shows a lack of respect for what is the publics property. If they were cutting on their own land, i suspect they'd do it differently
It's comments like this that causes our breakdown in meaningful discussion. Who is pocketing a lot of cash, please tell me? If we go back to reality - it all has to be accounted for, and the net revenue accounts for about 70% of the annual operating budget for the DNR forestry section. The rest comes from the state coffers via taxes.
I won't speak to your opinion of the impact, you're entitled to your opinion, but remember the forest isn't necessarily there just for you and to provide easy walking, easy hunting, etc The state forest is there for timber management primarilThere's where we disagree- timber management is maintenance, not the reason for the forests existence. The mess the loggers leave behind is sloppy and shows a lack of respect for what is the publics property. If they were cutting on their own land, i suspect they'd do it differently
how do you remove tons of weight and drop trees without some mess???........you must crack some eggs to make a omelet.......too for the work it takes they only make pennys per board foot
Easy- you make an omelette, you put the shells in the trash, - not leave them all over the kitchen floor.
Easy- you make an omelette, you put the shells in the trash, - not leave them all over the kitchen floor.