I dont get it

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

How can soooo much fail come from one keyboard?

Now all Americans have a right to feel safe. All Americans are to bow down to authority and answer any and all questions and comply with all requests by authorities. All Americans can not stand up for their God given rights. Oh yea and open carriers are douche bags if they stand up for thier rights and have no concern for scaring some timid pansy.

I see a sheep. Plain and simple, a sheep.

 

[Murzor]

Let's try substitution.
Someone calls the police to report a black man, and they don't feel safe.
The man is just going about his business, no threatening or intimidating going on. In fact, he is a law abiding man...... who just happens to have more pigmentation.
Then, every few days, someone else calls.
Each time, they ask for ID and question him. They use the line, "In this day and age, people are just being careful. They have a right to feel safe."

Would the above example be okay?

No, but last I checked I couldn't point my elbow at someone and kill them either.

 

[actaeon277]

No, but last I checked I couldn't point my elbow at someone and kill them either.

Are you denying that that very call couldn't be made?
Or are you denying that a person (of any race) can not murder/injure/create mayhem without a gun?

 

[ATM]

I don't feel like talking to an officer is "waiving" my rights.

Regardless of your feelings, it is.

If you are sporting a rifle and a LEO asks to see your ID or simply asks you why you are walking around with a rifle, whats the harm in answering?

That depends, since anything you say can and will be used against you.

If he trys to take it farther, then the officer isnt doing his job properly.

Right. If he doesn't respect my right to decline giving ID or answers to his questions and demands either, he has taken it too far.

I have been in this position before. The officer walked up and greeted me, then asked why I was out here with that rifle. I answered. After that we talked for a good half hour about guns and general stuff. Hell didnt come to earth, the universe stayed the same, life went on.

I have no issue with your choice to waive any or all of your rights.

I guess its up to the person on how defensive they chose to be as a [STRIKE]gun owner[/STRIKE].

Citizen.

Whether or not you chose to be open or defensive is yours to make.

I consider the defense of our rights to be a responsibility of every citizen, but I realize many will abdicate this role in the name of convenience, "feeling safe" or some other personal belief.

But you will not likely see me flaming LEOs because they simply wanted to make sure that I wasnt going to be the next nut job on the 6 O'clock news.

They can want anything they like, but they may not act upon anything they like. I know that I'm not the nut job they'd hope to find who would admit my ill intentions if simply asked, so there is no rational argument which would compel me to waive my rights and play along.

 

[Murzor]

How can soooo much fail come from one keyboard?

Now all Americans have a right to feel safe. All Americans are to bow down to authority and answer any and all questions and comply with all requests by authorities. All Americans can not stand up for their God given rights. Oh yea and open carriers are douche bags if they stand up for thier rights and have no concern for scaring some timid pansy.

I see a sheep. Plain and simple, a sheep.

Obviously you read your own post and thought fail, because none of what you stated is what we are discussing.

First, all humans have the right to live and feel safe. This right is placed on us by our maker, and enforced with humanity. After all, isnt this why most carry a gun in the first place? To feel safe?

Second, no one here except you has made the bow down and comply to any and all statement. We are discussing whether or not one should be open or defensive with an officer who is checking up on someone walking around with a rifle.

Thirdly, God did not give me the right to carry a gun. Mr. Colt gave the opportunity to allow myself thus right. I would be more than happy to start another conversation on religion in the appropriate area if you are interested.

Lastly, no one here said all OCers are douches. And as stated before, we are not discussing OC/CC here. This is a conversation about walking around with a rifle.

 

[Murzor]

Are you denying that that very call couldn't be made?
Or are you denying that a person (of any race) can not murder/injure/create mayhem without a gun?

I'm simply stating that your choice to bring racism into a conversation about a person with a rifle is irrelevant.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Obviously you read your own post and thought fail, because none of what you stated is what we are discussing.

First, all humans have the right to live and feel safe. This right is placed on us by our maker, and enforced with humanity. After all, isnt this why most carry a gun in the first place? To feel safe?

Is this in writing somewhere? Or did you just make it up? Cite your sources.

Second, no one here except you has made the bow down and comply to any and all statement. We are discussing whether or not one should be open or defensive with an officer who is checking up on someone walking around with a rifle.

Checking up on? Again, what? An officer can determine if someone is going to kill or not? I'd guess a killer might act nice, then once mr officer is gone, go ahead and start killing.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I'm simply stating that your choice to bring racism into a conversation about a person with a rifle is irrelevant.

It's not. You are saying guns make people feel "unsafe". So do other races. And animals. And bugs. And the presence of lightning and thunder.

Stop repeating yourself, and back up what you're saying.

 

[ATM]

...First, all humans have the right to live and feel safe. This right is placed on us by our maker, and enforced with humanity. After all, isnt this why most carry a gun in the first place? To feel safe?
...

No, it isn't.

You should make a new thread to discuss your "right to feel safe" reasoning.

 

[Murzor]

Regardless of your feelings, it is.



That depends, since anything you say can and will be used against you.



Right. If he doesn't respect my right to decline giving ID or answers to his questions and demands either, he has taken it too far.



I have no issue with your choice to waive any or all of your rights.




Citizen.



I consider the defense of our rights to be a responsibility of every citizen, but I realize many will abdicate this role in the name of convenience, "feeling safe" or some other personal belief.



They can want anything they like, but they may not act upon anything they like. I know that I'm not the nut job they'd hope to find who would admit my ill intentions if simply asked, so there is no rational argument which would compel me to waive my rights and play along.

These are all valid rebuttals and you seem to be very intelligent. It was my honor to be able to speak with you today in these matters as I always enjoy someone who can hold there own in a conversation. Heres to many more

 

[actaeon277]

Obviously you read your own post and thought fail, because none of what you stated is what we are discussing.

First, all humans have the right to live and feel safe. This right is placed on us by our maker, and enforced with humanity. After all, isnt this why most carry a gun in the first place? To feel safe?

Second, no one here except you has made the bow down and comply to any and all statement. We are discussing whether or not one should be open or defensive with an officer who is checking up on someone walking around with a rifle.

Thirdly, God did not give me the right to carry a gun. Mr. Colt gave the opportunity to allow myself thus right. I would be more than happy to start another conversation on religion in the appropriate area if you are interested.

Lastly, no one here said all OCers are douches. And as stated before, we are not discussing OC/CC here. This is a conversation about walking around with a rifle.

God gave you the right to defend yourself. Colt gave you the 6 shooter.
If we have been given a right to feel safe, why was so many ways to die placed on the face of the earth?

I'm simply stating that your choice to bring racism into a conversation about a person with a rifle is irrelevant.

I brought in a reason some feel unsafe. I disagree with racism. But it exists.
I disagree with hoplopophobia (sp?). But it exists.
How about substituting in car?
Cars kill. Lets stop all sports cars and interogate the drivers.

 

[ATM]

...Heres to many more

I can assure you, there will be many more. We loves us some arguments.

Enjoy.

 

[Burnsy]

Lastly, no one here said all OCers are douches. And as stated before, we are not discussing OC/CC here. This is a conversation about walking around with a rifle.

So you are ok, with people carrying pistols and not being harassed but someone need harassing if they are carrying a rifle.

Whats the difference? Both can be used to do good or do bad. If it's a black rifle should they be super harassed?

 

[ATM]

... If it's a black rifle should they be super harassed?

I believe "assault-style harassment" would be proper.

 

[92ThoStro]

I'm waiting for the late Aprils Fools part!
Where is it?????????

LTCH? Why certainly, here it is.
After that, it should be over.

Nobody should have to be detained and questioned, and asked for their picture ID after the LTCH is given, simply because the officer wants to protect everyone's imaginary right to "feel safe".
So the unwritten right of others to feel safe (and no, you can't justify that statement with religion either, separation of church and state, the cop can't say well the bible says our creator...) trumps our CONSTITUTIONAL rights?

As far as carrying a rifle there is nothing illegal about it, so you don't even need an LTCH. And you certainly don't have to ID yourself. Indiana is not a stop and ID state. The people on here stopped for carrying a rifle usually have it in a sling. If the rifle is in their hands, at the ready, looking down the sights that's different. It is not illegal to look down the sights in public, but it does warrant an investigatory stop. And if they are pointing it at someone, then they need to do a felony stop.
If there is no dangerous handling, and no felonies being committed, then walk on!



When the fourth amendment talks about your right to be secure in your person, it isn't talking about your feelings of security.

30 minutes of talking you say? Sheesh, I wouldn't hang around for 30 minutes. If I am out of the house, I am doing something, and that's just not in my schedule.

 

[88GT]

Not at all. But I gurantee when a LEO asks me for my ID and LTCH, I will not be a douche and refuse/argue with them.

So exercising my rights makes me a douche?

Aditude is everything when you OC. I treat people with respect and I dont walk around acting like a "gangsta" or bad ass. Just as I have the right to bear my arms, those who chose not to also have rights. I have the right to walk around the local playground in a speedo, but how would you feel if i did it around your children? Mutual respect is a fading trait in our country. We have become a society of me, myself, and I so screw everyone else.

I'm me when I OC. Which means I'm a ***** when I'm angry, irritated, or frustrated. I'm funny (or so I think) when I'm happy. And I can be compassionate and caring when the situation calls for it. What I'm wearing on my hip doesn't change any of that.

Thank you for showing that your rights are greater than everyone elses. Ill remind you of this when someone you love is standing in front of some thugs gun. Oh wait, you wont mind becuase its wrong for a LEO to stop him and see if he is legally carrying said gun.

It sounds like you don't really understand what it means to be a right. A right is the freedom, the liberty to act. It is not an entitlement to feel any particular way. How would you satisfy that right? If my neighbor felt unsafe, how would that be remedied? What if out of the goodness of my heart I offered to install a state-of-the-art security system, employ 2 armed guards 24/7, and provide an 8' electrified perimeter fence patrolled by Zeus and Apollo (rep for the person who gets the reference). What if he still doesn't feel safe? Feeling X is not a right. It is a state of mind. You don't have a right to BE anything. You only have the right to DO something. And you certainly don't have a claim to control anybody else's behavior to satisfy your whims and desires.

 

[KG1]

Magnum Mania! - Zeus & Apollo

Zeus and Apollo are Higgins' beloved, highly trained, and exceptionally loyal, Doberman Pincher guard dogs. They provide an additional layer of security for Robin's Nest. Higgins often refers to them as simply "The Lads". When confronted with the verbal command of "Zeus, Apollo, Patrol!" they will roam the grounds of the estate looking for intruders, or unwelcome guests. According to Higgins, they are also trained to respond to some "34 distinct unvoiced commands". In the early seasons of the show, Magnum was often chased by "The Lads", but later not so much. In fact, they even became close "pals".

 

[Roadie]

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

..or a modern paraphrase:"Those willing to give up essential liberty in order to make themselves and/or others FEEL safe, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

[KG1]

(rep for the person who gets the reference).

 

[88GT]

Once wasn't enough, huh? Had to make sure I noticed.