Just had an interesting conversation on Facebook. A dear friend who thinks "nobody needs an AR-15" posted and asked those of us on the other side to have a rational discussion about them. So I did. After posting several long posts she thanked me for taking the time to explain my side without attacking or being disrespectful and said it gave her food for thought.
One of her friends piped up and said that we need to try more laws (paraphrased) I respectfully shot holes in her argument by pointing out we have tried laws for 30 years (GFZ act, AWB '94, etc) and none have worked. She still insisted we try more laws, even trying the same laws over again even though they didnt work the first time. This ended the conversation:
Me: Ran across this profound quote: "To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the law abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless."
-Lysander Spooner.
Her: I'm sorry I think that quote is part of the problem. It's the as saying ban cars because a drunk will drive.
Me: Exactly. You get it and agree with him. You DONT ban cars because they get abused. That is his point.
Her: [some nonsense about apples and oranges and how she hopes these kids can spark reform ]
Her: I thank you for being respectful but we will never agree. Have a good night.
It reminds me of Archie Bunker agreeing wholeheartedly with something MeatHead was reading to him, but as soon as he found out the quote was from a woman/black/jew, he freaks out and starts backpedaling because he cant see himself agreeing with that person who isnt like him.
That is what we are up against. People so hell bent on how evil guns are that they cannot be intellectually honest with themselves and be willing to change. "Guns are evil, and that is that. full stop. No matter what you say will change my mind on guns, even if I admit to agreeing with you on general principles of lawful rights and liberties. Guns are evil pure and simple, no matter what."
Can we ever get anywhere? As my friend said when I called out her friend in a PM, "I know it is complicated. We are learning to listen to understand, rather than to respond. It makes for a more productive discussion."
my response: "I guess the problem is, if nobody is willing to admit they are wrong and are willing to change, will we ever get anywhere?"
That right there is the kicker and the crux of our problem in this debate.
Trying to keep this about general unwillingness to change, not about anything political per se. Mods feel free to move if you see fit.
One of her friends piped up and said that we need to try more laws (paraphrased) I respectfully shot holes in her argument by pointing out we have tried laws for 30 years (GFZ act, AWB '94, etc) and none have worked. She still insisted we try more laws, even trying the same laws over again even though they didnt work the first time. This ended the conversation:
Me: Ran across this profound quote: "To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the law abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless."
-Lysander Spooner.
Her: I'm sorry I think that quote is part of the problem. It's the as saying ban cars because a drunk will drive.
Me: Exactly. You get it and agree with him. You DONT ban cars because they get abused. That is his point.
Her: [some nonsense about apples and oranges and how she hopes these kids can spark reform ]
Her: I thank you for being respectful but we will never agree. Have a good night.
It reminds me of Archie Bunker agreeing wholeheartedly with something MeatHead was reading to him, but as soon as he found out the quote was from a woman/black/jew, he freaks out and starts backpedaling because he cant see himself agreeing with that person who isnt like him.
That is what we are up against. People so hell bent on how evil guns are that they cannot be intellectually honest with themselves and be willing to change. "Guns are evil, and that is that. full stop. No matter what you say will change my mind on guns, even if I admit to agreeing with you on general principles of lawful rights and liberties. Guns are evil pure and simple, no matter what."
Can we ever get anywhere? As my friend said when I called out her friend in a PM, "I know it is complicated. We are learning to listen to understand, rather than to respond. It makes for a more productive discussion."
my response: "I guess the problem is, if nobody is willing to admit they are wrong and are willing to change, will we ever get anywhere?"
That right there is the kicker and the crux of our problem in this debate.
Trying to keep this about general unwillingness to change, not about anything political per se. Mods feel free to move if you see fit.
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