Hope you didn't like Win7 or 8...

[KittySlayer]

Coming from an IT professional standpoint.. the forced upgrade will break a lot of systems. There are systems out there that are still running legacy drivers and are running software that won't run on anything but specific versions of an OS. We had a client that was still running software that would only run on winXP simply because it was custom software and they could not/did not want to afford to have someone build new software to do the same thing.

Forced upgrades of legacy software or hardware are one thing when it is your house. So I have to spend $75 for a new scanner at home, annoying but not the end of the world. For a business multiply that time 10 seats... 100 seats... 1,000 seats and it adds up fast. Not to mention someone from IT has to touch everyone of those machines as most users are not bright enough to plug in any component without calling IT.

Custom made legacy software can be very expensive to reprogram and purchased legacy software may no longer have a company supporting it to program upgrades.

Corporate systems are outside of Microsoft's forced march upgrades. This is due to their centralized policy controls. The no-choice upgrades are for home users and small companies that do not use Active Directory.

Be sure to keep an eye on this and look to an IT professional that knows your system and knows what they are doing. Initial reaction was our business was safe but now maybe not. Still researching how we are impacted.

It appears MS has reversed their stance on this and with the re-classification of W10 from Optional Update to Recommended domain joined W7 Pro PCs may receive the W10 update automatically if three things are true...

 

[CountryBoy19]

Microsoft is still supporting 7 and 8.1, etc https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/lifeselectindex Each product has 5 years of mainstream and 5 years of extended support. So, want to make that argument again? Even if MS didn't, they are still not liable for the 3rd party product.

I don't care if they are supporting it or not. How does that help if the upgrade is forced upon you?

All software and hardware has a lifecycle or life expectancy. They are never designed to work forever. If a business relies on a piece of hardware or software, they need to plan for this lifecycle and not treat it like a one and done expense.

Yes. Microsoft can't be expected to maintain old protocols in the name of compatibility. They tried it and it held Windows back for years. Often times things are changed for security or stability. Nearly all blue screens of death with Windows are caused by a piece of hardware with a driver (the software piece that lets the hardware and windows interact) that is poorly written. In most cases the driver is written by the hardware vendor. To make Windows more stable, Microsoft no longer allows drivers to be written in such a way. A side effect of that is that the piece of hardware won't work with a new version of Windows unless the hardware vendor writes a new driver.

Let me try to paint a different picture for you.

Since the dawn of the internet every operating system, Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android all have errors in their code that when found leave the system open to remote attacks. There are many reasons this happens but contrary to popular belief, it isn't planned. These security holes are patched during the product's lifecycle. When that product's lifecycle is over then these patched stop. Once these patches stop, new security holes will be found and exploited but never fixed. That means ALL systems still running the old operating system can and likely will be attacked by cyber miscreants. The only way to be truly secure with the old versions of Windows, I'm looking at all of you XP holdouts, is to never connect to a network or the internet. In the case of home users they are only exposing themselves to risk and possibly allowing their computer to be used to attack other computers. In the case of corporate or buisnesses, an older operating system can contain much more sensitive information. Think credit cards, social security, healthcare, or other identity information for thousands or millions of people. With that said, if an entity relies on a piece of hardware that can only work with older versions of windows, then that system should never be connected to a network. That also means it won't get forcibly updated solving the problem you describe. If the system must be connected to the internet then yes it should be forcibly updated if needed to prevent holdouts causing data breaches for customers.

Those who don't like the way Microsoft is doing things absolutely should look into alternatives. Just keep in mind that they too will have a lifecycle and will eventually need to be updated to prevent security problems. If anyone does decide they want to switch to some form of linux, I encourage them to research the frequency of which vulnerabilities are found and how long it takes for them to be patched. While I'm not oblivious to the privacy implications that come with some of the Windows 10 features, I look at the Windows 10 push as more of a security thing than a data grab. If the things that it does concern you that much, then by all means switch to Linux or Mac. But you should also stop visiting Google, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, using a smartphone of any flavor, and many other things too.

IMHO, security issues are irrelevant to my post. I understand why they developed a new OS. I have friends that work at M$. That still doesn't address the issue of having the upgrade forced. Nor does it address the issues I pointed out in my post. It's quite easy for you to say "replacement of equipment should be planned for" but it's not that simple in the real world and you know it; especially for very specialized equipment.

Let me paint a different picture for you. Say the equipment is so specialized that nobody makes it anymore and it can't be replaced. Takes all the wind out of the sails of your rebuttal and a forced OS upgrade by M$ would kill that capability for the company. End of story.

How is that not M$'s fault?

I totally agree that the most secure thing would be to upgrade to the new software but it isn't always functionally acceptable.

FWIW, in many cases people running outdated hardware on outdated OS's aren't running them on a network or they are running them on a small local network that is disconnected from the outside and has proper security measure in place to protect the outdated OS/software/hardware. Which makes your "security lecture" a moot point.

 

[jkaetz]

I don't care if they are supporting it or not. How does that help if the upgrade is forced upon you?


IMHO, security issues are irrelevant to my post. I understand why they developed a new OS. I have friends that work at M$. That still doesn't address the issue of having the upgrade forced. Nor does it address the issues I pointed out in my post. It's quite easy for you to say "replacement of equipment should be planned for" but it's not that simple in the real world and you know it; especially for very specialized equipment.

Let me paint a different picture for you. Say the equipment is so specialized that nobody makes it anymore and it can't be replaced. Takes all the wind out of the sails of your rebuttal and a forced OS upgrade by M$ would kill that capability for the company. End of story.

How is that not M$'s fault?

While I don't believe your scenario exists, I did address it. Take the system off the network/internet. Secure and it won't get updated. If it's that old then it shouldn't need a network or internet to function. I still maintain that the more likely scenario isn't that the system can't be replaced, it's that it would be expensive and it wasn't planned for or no one wants to pay for it.

I totally agree that the most secure thing would be to upgrade to the new software but it isn't always functionally acceptable.

FWIW, in many cases people running outdated hardware on outdated OS's aren't running them on a network or they are running them on a small local network that is disconnected from the outside and has proper security measure in place to protect the outdated OS/software/hardware. Which makes your "security lecture" a moot point.

Again, if they are secured internally and blocked form the outside world, then they wouldn't get the upgrade anyway so what's the issue?

The security concerns are real. Look no further than the SCADA systems that get attacked because some fool managed to connect them to the internet. In some instances, even a local network can be a danger. If your stuff is so old that it can't work with a modern OS, it likely has no business on a network either.

 

[eldirector]

Let me paint a different picture for you. Say the equipment is so specialized that nobody makes it anymore and it can't be replaced. Takes all the wind out of the sails of your rebuttal and a forced OS upgrade by M$ would kill that capability for the company. End of story.

How is that not M$'s fault?

Equipment that specialized shouldn't be built around a consumer-grade OS, IMHO.

I know TONS of folks that do, but that doesn't make it right. It is all about risk management. Many, many companies are terrible at this.