Home Defense Shotgun

[in625shooter]

One more time for good measure...

I believe the difference of view point is the range involved. What has been left out is the effectiveness of the shotgun is overrated for one reason, Most loads with the exception of slugs while lethal at close range their effectiveness/lethalness drop like a rock, and those that don't, like 00 buck have such a spread at 25 yards hitting a target with 1 or 2 of the 9 pellets your doing good. Even #4 (a common LE load in the day) with it's 27 25 cal pellets will cause traumatic amputation on a limb at close range outside on 12-15 yards not as much.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

On my days as a municipal LEO I saw a couple bad guys hit with 45's walking around like they just had a bad case of heart burn. I have also seen several folks within the Federal system walking around with wounds from 9mm, 40, 45, 357, 10mm , 5.56 and even one with a 7.62 wound from a BOP M 14 back in the day when US Penitentiary's used them and two others with 00 buck wounds. Nothing is an absolute. often times failure is the result of the shooter trying to get more range etc out of their chosen rounds than they should, other times it's just Murphy's Law!

No one disputes that. Some people are killed by a .25, and some survive a 7.62. The difference is in the proportions, and it does not mean they are equal.

like 00 buck have such a spread at 25 yards hitting a target with 1 or 2 of the 9 pellets your doing good.

Try Federal LE flight control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHIrUYRiBk

That's what we use, and as shown in that video a good center mass hit will keep all pellets on target at 50 yards. At that distance I have a tendency to hit high (and honestly don't practice enough with the shotgun at those distances) and I'll still keep all or most pellets on target.

Few of us cheap out on handgun ammo, because we know that a well designed hollowpoint greatly increases the capability of the weapon system. The same is true of shotgun shells. Use something designed for the purpose at hand.

 

[addictedhealer]

Mossberg 500 7+1 00 buck shot. 20" barrel and 20" mag tube factory stock and forend. Side saddle filled with 4 00 and 3 slugs.

 

[45fan]

Just depends on your taste (if money isn't a major issue) really. I did what Joe Biden said and got a double barrel... Just kidding, but I seriously use a double barrel because it's what I prefer and am able to shoot the best. I use standard HD ammo. I figure if I shoot someone, it really won't matter that much what they're shot with.

Your not the only one. I keep a hammerless coach gun stuffed with 3" Winchester OO on my side of the bed. Its the same gun I use to rabbit hunt with, and I am scary fast/accurate with it. I have a sleeve on the stock that holds 5 more shells (and I do practice reloading from the but stock) and keep my trusty Hi-Power holstered next to it in the instance I need more than the couple of ounces of lead that the shotgun delivers.

The wife sticks with the more conventional pump gun (Winchester), but hers has the 18" barrel, and is loaded with Fiocchi low recoil OO buck. It patterns well enough to hold all 9 pellets on a half size target at room to room distances, and she shoots it well, without fear of recoil. If that isn't enough, she does sleep with her 44 Mag holstered on her side of the bed most of the time...

 

[Excalibur]

Unless it's the end of the world and I'm channeling my inner cowboy, I wouldn't use a double barrel shotgun. I'd use a pump or a semi auto.

 

[John Galt]

Benelli M4 with side saddle, Surefire light, Aimpoint H1 and a butt load of 00 Buck - when you care enough to send the very best!

 

[GIJEW]

As far as gauge a 12 can not be beat however if you are small structured or have a spouse that will use it a 20 ga is nothing to sneeze at. Even a 410 for that matter with decent loads.

As far as loads recommended, I find it funny some folks think 00 or slugs are the only answer. While every ones situation/house set up is different in most normal mortals houses the rooms and or hallways are not that large and you would be just as effective at that range (we are talking feet here in most cases) with any type of shot and it will usually be lethal at close range with not a lot of spread at across the room distances. Bird Shot is also more friendly on your house as far as mot damaging near as much as a slug or 00 or even #4 and it also minimizes the risk of penetrating a wall where a loved one might be in the next room.

As far as folks that want to stagger rounds. that is an old outdated method used by LE years ago and is hardly used today. Fact of the matter in a home defense situation you will not have the time to choose and pick your loads and as far as in the middle of an engagement probably won't be able to as far as cycling X number of live rounds through to get to THAT round. do you remember how many you shot under stress etc etc. You could have one in a speed feed on the stock would be a better option than staggering in the tube. Especially in a home defense situation. Unless it is a large invasion force you just won't have time for that!

Not saying there is never a reason to use slugs or 00 but you might be doing yourself more harm than not if you do. Just look and consider all your options as to your living arrangement.

I agree that #4 buckshot is a good choice, and maybe better than 00 because it's going to cause more wound channels IF the home invader is far enough for the shot to begin to spread. I would leave birdshot for birds or clay pidgeons though, that stuff won't break bone reliably and doesn't penetrate much more than 3" of flesh. Stopping power can be dicey enough, being dependent on shot placement--read: penetrating & destroying vital organs--and being affected by the enemy's mindset, adrenalin, etc. Complicating the situation by trying to stop a meth-head with birdshot sounds hazardous.
Shotguns are unwieldy in a confined space and work better in static defense (at the top of the stairs, end of the hall) after you've gathered up the family. In any case, "less-penetrating" ammo isn't a substitute for some planning and identifying relatively safe lines of fire in advance.
You're right about staggering rounds. It's not practical under stress and I doubt it's used anymore in LE. Besides, There are real differences in the situations/needs of the public and LEO in a gun fight.

 

[cmr13]

Oh man, I'm confused. Have we skipped worrying about "over penetration" and jumped directly to "**** it, burn it down!"?

YES! I actually have a bucket of gasoline balanced on my front door so whenever someone walks in it dumps on them and then I LIGHT THEM UP.

I actually just wanted to know what he meant by "explosive ammo".

 

[Excalibur]

A buddy of mine just got a Benelli M4 and it's going to be a fun time.

 

[BuddieReigns]

Unless it's the end of the world and I'm channeling my inner cowboy, I wouldn't use a double barrel shotgun. I'd use a pump or a semi auto.

I move a cut down single shot from room to room with me a lot of the time. I have a pump, but I don't necessarily like keeping one in the chamber, and if someone does break into my house, I don't think the idea of the pump sound being somewhat psychologically scary is worth giving away the advantage of them maybe not knowing my position in the house. I wish they made more pump shotguns with external hammers for this very reason. I have my great grampa's Winchester 1897, but it has way too long of a barrel to move around indoors, and I don't think I want to have it cut down since it's an heirloom.

 

[Excalibur]

Why don't you like to keep a shell loaded? Most pumps are drop safe with externals safeties. And having the shotgun inactive with an exposed hammer down makes it an extra step to get it into the fight.

 

[BuddieReigns]

I keep a shell loaded with the exposed hammers. I just guess that's how I always saw it. I'm not saying I'm right. It's just how I've always done it I guess.

 

[chezuki]

Most pumps are drop safe with externals safeties.

Negative. The safeties on 870's and 500's prevent the trigger from moving, not the firing pin or the hammer. They can still be inertia-fired.

 

[in625shooter]

Negative. The safeties on 870's and 500's prevent the trigger from moving, not the firing pin or the hammer. They can still be inertia-fired.

^^THIS^^

 

[VERT]

Negative. The safeties on 870's and 500's prevent the trigger from moving, not the firing pin or the hammer. They can still be inertia-fired.

Didn't something similar happen to one prominent INGO member? Not sure if I heard the story.

 

[chezuki]

Didn't something similar happen to one prominent INGO member? Not sure if I heard the story.

Strange... I can't believe that member has never shared or even referenced that event. You'd think a real-life occurrence of that nature could be a real eye-opener to the less safety-conscious members here.

 

[in625shooter]

Several years ago there was an instructor at the Arizona state patrol academy (I believe it was Arizona) trying to clear a jam out of a short barrel 870. The type where at the time the SOP is to strike the butt on the ground giving it the inertia to work the slide because the shell lifter has the shells caught up. Well unfortunate he didn't have it in a safe enough direction and was killed in front of the class form an unintentional gunshot wound to the head. Bad day. After that Remington started manufacturing the U cut out in that shell lifter to minimize that type of malfunction.

However the safety was on but a round was chambered, when the butt of the stock struck the ground the inertia caused the hammer to fall wihile the safety on. Why he didn't fire the round off before striking the butt of the stock on the ground we will never know.

 

[Robjps]

Negative. The safeties on 870's and 500's prevent the trigger from moving, not the firing pin or the hammer. They can still be inertia-fired.

100% correct.

 

[LtScott14]

That is exactly the reason why you don't pump the slide while trying to unload an 870 or Moss 500. We invert the gun, depress the carrier bar and remove the ammo from the magazine(tube). Also always point in safe direction, (I layout my armour on my mattress and gently unload the shotgun for cleaning) Over 30yrs now, never a ND.

 

[lonehoosier]

Why don't you like to keep a shell loaded? Most pumps are drop safe with externals safeties. And having the shotgun inactive with an exposed hammer down makes it an extra step to get it into the fight.