Hollow point vs. others

[Dutch68]

In regard to polymers , there are different grades of Polymer and can be flexible to somewhat rigid depending on what it's being used for

 

[MCgrease08]

Yes. Here is Doc's recap on the Hornady Critical Duty:


The Fed HST line is among the best duty loads currently available for service caliber pistols. HST’s tend to work best using heavier bullets (147 gr, 180 gr, 230 gr) at moderate velocities, with standard pressures."

I personally really like the Federal HST line myself. I run 124 gr standard pressure in my Glock 19.

I also agree with others that the Speer Gold Dots are pretty darn good too.

 

[TECKS]

Yes. Here is Doc's recap on the Hornady Critical Duty:

"In general, the Hornady Critical Duty ammunition did NOT perform as well as several current JHP loads. The best performing Critical Duty load was the .45 Auto 220 gr +P and the worst performing was the .40 S&W 175 gr. In areas where conventional JHP designs are prohibited, the Hornady Critical Duty joins the Federal EFMJ as an option that is better than the Corbon Powerball or FMJ loads.

The Fed HST line is among the best duty loads currently available for service caliber pistols. HST’s tend to work best using heavier bullets (147 gr, 180 gr, 230 gr) at moderate velocities, with standard pressures."

How does doc test these loads? do you have a link to his site?

 

[Dead Duck]

I use to worry about over penetration.
But now I shoot my [STRIKE]victims[/STRIKE] dirtbags against the north wall. See my neighbor's house is brick.











+P HPs work just fine.

 

[ModernGunner]

I use to worry about over penetration.
But now I shoot my [STRIKE]victims[/STRIKE] dirtbags against the north wall. See my neighbor's house is brick.

+P HPs work just fine.

Including their windows (in case a bullet is diverted for some reason)?

Not overly familiar with DocGKR, TBH. However, with due respect to whatever credentials he may have, not sure his 'expertise' is recognized and / or accepted by the powers-that-be (read, Judges, Prosecutors, and lawyers in general) in my (or your) jurisdiction.

For my students, when the discussion comes up of choosing self-defense rounds, as it invariably does, I typically simply recommend they carry the same ammunition carried (therefore, 'recognized') by the law enforcement agencies in their particular locale.

This virtually eliminates any allegation of some 'lowly civilian' using 'killer bullets' by some 'over-zealous' Prosecutor or ambulance-chaser type lawyer. "Oh, you mean the SAME 'killer bullets' YOUR Police Department issues to it's own Officers?"

JMO, and YMMV, of course, but better to just shut down that ridiculous argument before it even gets started.

As far as hollowpoints against heavy winter or leather clothing, pretty sure the .44 mag EDC negates that 'worry' (as well as many other caliber / bullet design combinations).

What lies beyond (behind) the intended target, however, IS extremely important. Better to not take the shot and / or reposition than risk unintended damage. Every round fired is accountable.

 

[NIFT]

How does doc test these loads? do you have a link to his site?

The seven FBI testing protocols using properly calibrated Knox 10% ballistic gelatin. You can find his work at lightfighter.com

 

[NIFT]

Not overly familiar with DocGKR, TBH. However, with due respect to whatever credentials he may have, not sure his 'expertise' is recognized and / or accepted by the powers-that-be (read, Judges, Prosecutors, and lawyers in general) in my (or your) jurisdiction.

For my students, when the discussion comes up of choosing self-defense rounds, as it invariably does, I typically simply recommend they carry the same ammunition carried (therefore, 'recognized') by the law enforcement agencies in their particular locale.

True: your unfamiliarity is blatantly obvious.

 

[rhino]

Here is the latest list from PF that DOCGKR has published:

Thank you, sir!

Yes. Here is Doc's recap on the Hornady Critical Duty:

"In general, the Hornady Critical Duty ammunition did NOT perform as well as several current JHP loads. The best performing Critical Duty load was the .45 Auto 220 gr +P and the worst performing was the .40 S&W 175 gr. In areas where conventional JHP designs are prohibited, the Hornady Critical Duty joins the Federal EFMJ as an option that is better than the Corbon Powerball or FMJ loads.

The Fed HST line is among the best duty loads currently available for service caliber pistols. HST’s tend to work best using heavier bullets (147 gr, 180 gr, 230 gr) at moderate velocities, with standard pressures."

Thank you, sir!

 

[dudley0]

Easy with the name calling... I might have to report you!

I tell anyone that is interested to read up on what DocGKR has to say. He knows his stuff.

Best advice he ever presented said basically to not get hung up on the ammo, caliber or firearm but to get your mind right first.

 

[TheSpark]

In a class it was said that you should carry hollow points. The reasoning is that in a justified shooting, you can be held liable for harm caused by a bullet that travels beyond the initial target. Comments?

Warning: IANAL

I agree that you should use hollow points because there is a less chance of them going through and hurting someone else, along with more of a chance of actually taking down your target. However, if you are acting in self defense and a bullet you shoot goes through the "bad guy" and also hurts/kills an innocent person behind them I do not believe you will be liable IF the shooting was truly self defense and a court/jury agrees.

Technically, you can legally kill an innocent person in an effort to save your own life. An example I can think of is if there are two people drowning in a lake. One of them is much bigger than the other and overpowers the littler guy and gets on top of him to try to stay afloat. In the end the bigger guy survives but the smaller guy drowns from the bigger guy pushing him under. Since the bigger guy was acting to save his own life he would not be liable for what would otherwise be murder.

Another example would be you are driving down the road and a semi is about to hit you head on (semi is going to be at fault here). You have two options, get hit by the semi or swerve into the other lane where you will hit a car head-on who would otherwise not be involved. You choose, for your own life's sake, to hit the car head-on since your chances will be greater to survive. Unfortunately the driver of the car you choose to hit on purpose dies. You would not be liable.

I don't see how shooting a threat to your life and hitting and possibly even killing an innocent bystander in the act is any different in the eyes of the law. The liability should fall on the "bad guy".

 

[Drail]

You have obviously never seen an experienced attorney at work. A good one is just like a politician - they can get just about anyone to believe just about anything.

 

[dudley0]

If you pull the trigger you are responsible for whatever that bullet does.

I would need to see actual case files or IC that states you are not held liable for hitting another person, even in a self defense situation.

I am not a lawyer either.

 

[singlesix]

I'm really hoping some of our ingoers who are real lawyers will comment.

 

[TheSpark]

If you pull the trigger you are responsible for whatever that bullet does.

I would need to see actual case files or IC that states you are not held liable for hitting another person, even in a self defense situation.

I am not a lawyer either.

What about in the case where two people rob a store and one gets killed by the store owner and the other lives. The responsible party for that death is the robber who survived, not the store owner who fired that bullet. The robber who survived will face murder charges for the person who died as of a result of the bullet the store owner fired.

When you are committing a felony you are responsible for anything that happens even if you did not directly cause it. In a true self defense situation the person causing you to use self defense is going to be committing a felony and therefor the blame, responsibility, liability, whatever should fall on them.

 

[sjstill]

awe, that's cute Spark. You actually believe the system works.....

 

[lovemachine]

awe, that's cute Spark. You actually believe the system works.....

Lolz

 

[TheSpark]

awe, that's cute Spark. You actually believe the system works.....

Guess I do.

 

[sjstill]

Yeah, it does, eventually. Usually at a high cost, monetarily, physically and spiritually.

 

[dudley0]

You are talking about shooting an innocent bystander on accident. That is still your responsibility.

 

[singlesix]

Criminal vs. Civil? I can see no criminal, but civil is another matter.