Gunowners and Obama...read before you vote!

[JBLee]

Vote however you see fit but as a gunowner you better be willing to give up a lot of the fredoms you currently enjoy if you vote for Obama, sure that's my opinion.....but here are the FACTS. Footnoted and documented Facts. As a gunowner and a voter you need to read this.

On the Second Amendment,


The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.

But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.


FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month sales restrictions.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 2, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r ... vote=00219)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 20087. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 2, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r ... vote=00217)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... on-se.html)

5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

6. In the Illinois Senate, Obama sponsored SB-1136, which would have amended Illinois licensing laws by increasing the requirements for the Illinois Firearm Owners Identification card. When asked about registration during the Nevada Democratic debate on January 17, 2008, Obama did not oppose it, but simply stated, “I don’t think that we can get that done.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/po ... wanted=all)

7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 60181.html)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/ ... wards.html)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog ... shoot.html)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urban ... nforcement.)
15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_ ... ontrol.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004

 

[flagtag]

And for us lowly, bitter, people "clinging to our guns and religion", someone like Obama, who thinks he is so far above the general public, especially with his "Chicago Politician" mentality, would just be working to further seperate "the classes". And his associations with various other Chicago "leaders", like Rezko, Daily, Blago, Mell, and certain male and female bombers, and white hating "religious personalities" does not bode well for the country.

 

[Paul]

And for us lowly, bitter, people "clinging to our guns and religion", someone like Obama, who thinks he is so far above the general public, especially with his "Chicago Politician" mentality, would just be working to further seperate "the classes". And his associations with various other Chicago "leaders", like Rezko, Daily, Blago, Mell, and certain male and female bombers, and white hating "religious personalities" does not bode well for the country.

Plus he supports Odinga in Kenya who is communist

 

[flagtag]

Plus he supports Odinga in Kenya who is communist

Obama is on the wrong side of everything, isn't he!

 

[Prometheus]

Most of my weapons mcAmnesty wants to ban as well.

Please explain to me how that is any more acceptable than what nobama wants?

 

[MilitaryArms]

Most of my weapons mcAmnesty wants to ban as well.

Please explain to me how that is any more acceptable than what nobama wants?

Get with it dude, McNasty has an R in front of his name so we have to vote for him.

Jesh. What do you expect in a two party system?

 

[flagtag]

Most of my weapons mcAmnesty wants to ban as well.

Please explain to me how that is any more acceptable than what nobama wants?

"nobama" wants to ban ALL of them! Not just some. Obama doesn't want us to be able to defend ourselves (while HE is surrounded by Secret Services agents to protect him and HIS family.)
But then, he IS the "Chosen One!" and he IS entitled.

 

[Paul]

Most of my weapons mcAmnesty wants to ban as well.

Please explain to me how that is any more acceptable than what nobama wants?

McCain might want to ban your weopons, amnesty for illegals, ect... but at least he will protect this country and not ruin our military.

In your view, McCain is just as bad as Obama with guns, amnesty, ect but Obama doesnt care about this country. He is a in the closet communist, racist, ect. McCain does care about the country, isnt communist, racist, ect. By voting for a 3rd party canidate, you are putting a president in the oval office that hates this country. Simple as that.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I am just trying to figure out if I can do the "hold my nose and vote" BS one more time. I swore after the last time when I voted for Bush (just to keep Kerry out of office) I was done doing that.

McCain isn't some great savior and I don't care how much you claim to love something, if you systematically dismantle it (like he does with his policies) you're still hurting it.

I can guarantee you Obama claims (and honestly believes) he loves our country. But that doesn't mean anything to me when I see what he would do to it.

As for the military or anything else you think McCain will defend, you have no idea what McCain would do once in office. He's a notorious deal maker (with liberals).

 

[Panama]

I am sure alot of us on here have seen this Obama video, if you haven't, you have to!
If this doesn't put you straight on EXACTLY what he will do, NOTHING will!

* Obama wants to “Protect” America*by*Macsmind - Official Blog of the MacRanger Radio Show on Blog Talk Radio

What a FREAKIN' :dumbass:

 

[Prometheus]

Exactly.

This country is NOTHING without the principles and values that make it great.

By voting for a 3rd party canidate, you are putting a president in the oval office that hates this country. Simple as that.

mccain hates the Constitution the same as obama. One is on the side of socialism and the reason you can't see the tyranny of mccain is the same way ever fascist has risen to power... flag waving and false patriotism.

The country mccain loves is NOT one of freedom or liberty and certainly resembles nothing of a Constitutional Republic.

I am not going to cower in fear like some of you from the "terrorist" boogey man. A terrorist may occasionally kill an American, but the US Governemnt has it hands on every (legal) person in this country, everyday.

THAT is why obama and mccain are the same. They both have a vision of America that is equally as desructive. I for one am not a traitor. I will NOT support treason, no matter how many Navy hats or US pins it's wearing.

mcAmnesty and I took the same oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. Don't hate me just because I still take that oath seriously.

 

[flagtag]

Five years imprisoned by the enemy, refusing to sell out his fellow military personnel and his country under penalty of torture - with so many broken bones that he can't even raise his arms to shoulder level when he could have gotten out because of his father's influence tells me he cares quite a bit about his country and it's citizens.
He may not be perfect, but who is? He's worlds above Obama!

 

[Paul]

Five years imprisoned by the enemy, refusing to sell out his fellow military personnel and his country under penalty of torture - with so many broken bones that he can't even raise his arms to shoulder level when he could have gotten out because of his father's influence tells me he cares quite a bit about his country and it's citizens.
He may not be perfect, but who is? He's worlds above Obama!

Exactly!!!

and the 3d party candidates are not constitution lovers either. none of the candidates would be perfect. you cant get a perfect president.

 

[DodgebyDave]

We had a chance for a decent president, now we are stuck with the lesser of two evils and the evil of two lessors.

While most on this board appear to be intelligent and informed, the vast majority of the sheeple are not, that is what is killing our country.

Unfortunately, there is only so much that one man can do and it would still have been Dr. Paul vs the Washington elite.

Lets start by dumping the republicons and demorats in this state. Lets start at the local level. THAT will be a step we can all live with. Once we kill that two party cyclops here, then we can move on the scum in DC

 

[flagtag]

We had a chance for a decent president, now we are stuck with the lesser of two evils and the evil of two lessors.

While most on this board appear to be intelligent and informed, the vast majority of the sheeple are not, that is what is killing our country.

Unfortunately, there is only so much that one man can do and it would still have been Dr. Paul vs the Washington elite.

Lets start by by dumping the republicons and demorats in this state. Lets start at the local level. THAT will be a step we can all live with. Once we kill that two party cyclops here, then we can move on the scum in DC

You are right about starting "at the bottom". Many of those voted into the "local" offices move up to higher offices (this includes schools, etc). If we can vote people from other than D or R and they move up, we might get someone worth voting for.

 

[cosermann]

John Lott had a good OpEd piece on FoxNews about this a while back. Lott was acquainted with Obama a bit back in the 90's and has a bit of insight from that. It's funny that it's an "opinion" piece, because the facts of the record speak clearly.

FOXNews.com - Obama and Guns: Two Different Views - Opinion

You can bet that if he's elected, Obama won't appoint judges to the SC that will allow something like the "mistake" of the recent DC gun ban rulling to happen again.

 

[JBLee]

Here is the article:

Taken from an article by written by John Lott.
Something happens to Democrats on the gun issue when they run for president. For John Kerry during 2004, it was awkwardly posing in brand new hunting gear at a seemingly endless series of hunting photo-ops.
But in what will probably be the most improbable change, the Politico reported on Saturday that Barack Obama was making a big play for gun votes in Pennsylvania. It is not particularly surprising that this change is occurring with the crucial Pennsylvania primary soon approaching.
With about one million of the country’s 12.5 million hunters, Pennsylvania is number one in the nation in the amount of time its citizens spend hunting. With about 600,000 people with permits to carry concealed handguns, Pennsylvania also has more permit holders than any other state. Others, such as Jim Kessler, vice president for policy with Third Way, a progressive think tank, view Obama as starting to position himself for the general election.
Obama has consistently supported gun control legislation that came up while he was in the Illinois state legislature and the U.S. Senate.
For example, when Obama ran for the Illinois state senate the political group, Independent Voters of Illinois (IVI), asked him if he supported a “ban [on] the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns” and he responded “yes.”
Realizing how damaging this could prove in the general election, his presidential campaign “flatly denied” Obama ever held this view, blaming it instead on a staffer from his state senate race.
But then IVI provided Politico the questionnaire with Obama’s own handwritten notes revising another answer. Members of IVI’s board of directors, some of whom have worked on Obama’s past campaigns, told Politico that “I always believed those to be his views, what he really believes in, and he’s tailoring it now to make himself more palatable as a nationwide candidate.”
But the IVI questionnaire isn’t the only one out there.
In 1998, another questionnaire administered by IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test didn’t ask about banning all handguns, but it did find that Obama wanted to “ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.”
Indeed, such a ban would outlaw virtually all handguns and the vast majority of rifles sold in the United States.
In addition, from 1998 to 2001, Obama was on the board of directors for the Joyce Foundation, which funded such anti-gun groups as the Violence Policy Center, the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, and Handgun Free America. Both the Violence Policy Center and Handgun Free America, as its name suggests, are in favor of a complete ban on handguns. During his tenure on the board, the Joyce Foundation was probably the major funder of pro-control research in the United States.
In fact, I knew Obama during the mid-1990s, and his answers to IVI’s question on guns fit well with the Obama that I knew. Indeed, the first time I introduced myself to him he said “Oh, you are the gun guy.” I responded “Yes, I guess so.” He simply responded that “I don’t believe that people should be able to own guns.” DO YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW ANY MORE THAN THIS? (jim)
When I said it might be fun to talk about the question sometime and about his support of the city of Chicago’s lawsuit against the gun makers, he simply grimaced and turned away, ending the conversation.
If taken literally, Obama’s statement to me was closer to what the IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test found, indicating that Obama's bans would extend well beyond handguns.
Obama also opposes the current laws in 48 states that let citizens carry concealed handguns for protection claiming, despite all the academic studies to the contrary, that "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
Even Hillary Clinton disagrees with him on this.
The Obama campaign’s strategy largely follows 2003 surveys produced by Democratic pollster Mark Penn showing that if Democrats didn't show "respect for the 2nd Amendment and support gun safety," voters would presume that they were anti-gun. "The formula for Democrats," according to Penn, "is to say that they support the 2nd Amendment, but that they want tough laws that close loopholes. This is something [Democrats] can run on and win on."
It was the same strategy that all the Democratic presidential candidates seemed to follow in 2004.
Earlier this year, Karlyn Bowman at the American Enterprise Institute said: “The Clinton and Obama campaigns know the public opinion data on the issue well. . . . the right to be able to own a gun seems to be firmly held, and I think that's why both candidates say what they say."
In practice, saying that Obama now believes that the Second Amendment means that there is an individual right to own guns doesn’t mean anything if it can’t even prevent guns from being banned. And even today, despite the pressure from the Pennsylvania primary, Obama is unwilling to state that DC’s or Chicago’s ban on guns are unconstitutional.
Obama’s website only recognizes two legitimate purposes for civilian ownership of guns: “hunting and target shooting.” The notion that people might want to protect themselves when the police are not around isn’t something that he sees as legitimate.
On both his Iraq and trade policies, Obama has already faced the embarrassing situations where his top advisors have had to tell people in other countries not to worry because he doesn’t believe what he is telling American voters.
With guns, it sure looks like Obama is again telling voters what they want to hear, not what he plans on doing.

I know for some of you I am beating a dead horse, but I want to make it very clear what hangs in the balance here. I refuse to be one of those who wished I'd spoken up before it was too late. I'd rather make a statemant and not need it, than need a statment and not make it!

 

[Foxtrot]

They just don't get it. Do they?

The second amendment to the Constitution was never intended just to protect hunting or target shooting rights. It has a far greater purpose.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Here is the article:

Taken from an article by written by John Lott.
(...)
Obama also opposes the current laws in 48 states that let citizens carry concealed handguns for protection claiming, despite all the academic studies to the contrary, that "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
Even Hillary Clinton says she disagrees with him on this.

Fixed. I don't believe her any more than I do BHO. Hillary speak with forked tongue like husband.

Blessings,
B

 

[Bigum1969]

The one thing that gives McCain props for me is what he went through for our country while spending 5+ years in a prison camp in Vietnam.

He is a deal maker. He does reach across the aisle. Voters in the middle tend to like this.

But if you compare the two candidates, what has Obama done for this country?

We live in a two party system. Does anyone really think that any group gets exactly what they want? Each candidate must become a centrist in order to get elected. That's where we are today.

Like I said, I do respect what McCain went through in Vietnam.