Glocks sucks even more, .45acp's going Kaboom now...

[theturtle06]

When the story is NEW, does that not make it NEWS? The whole "Not this @!&# again" head slap does not seem to apply here.

Regardless of this being new news, this topic always ends up in a Glock vs. (insert any pistol here) debate.

From my quick googling it, the .45 GAP cartridge is roughly the same pressure as a .45 ACP +P.

By now we all know the tendency of Glocks to kaboom, and there are two reasons for this. One is due to the huge number of them in use. How large of a market share do they have in the police market? And then factor in the civilian market which is much harder to accurately gauge...
Another reason is that their design is inherently more susceptible to the web of the case expanding and potentially blowing up. This is due to the large feed ramp and lack of support for the web of the cartridge. There is just no way around this if you use a Glock factory barrel.

If Glock were to "fix this design flaw" (IMO it IS a design flaw, regardless of how much reliability it adds) it may cause their pistols to lose some of their legendary reliability. Why change the Glock "perfection?"

I have nothing personal against Glock. I am not a fan of them simply because their pistols do not fit my hands properly. I can appreciate the advanced engineering (and in turn extremely simple) design, reliability, and parts compatibility, but their pistols are just not my cup o tea. So I am not bashing Glocks, I am just stating indisputable facts.

 

[Joe Williams]

Regardless of this being new news, this topic always ends up in a Glock vs. (insert any pistol here) debate.

From my quick googling it, the .45 GAP cartridge is roughly the same pressure as a .45 ACP +P.

By now we all know the tendency of Glocks to kaboom, and there are two reasons for this. One is due to the huge number of them in use. How large of a market share do they have in the police market? And then factor in the civilian market which is much harder to accurately gauge...
Another reason is that their design is inherently more susceptible to the web of the case expanding and potentially blowing up. This is due to the large feed ramp and lack of support for the web of the cartridge. There is just no way around this if you use a Glock factory barrel.

If Glock were to "fix this design flaw" (IMO it IS a design flaw, regardless of how much reliability it adds) it may cause their pistols to lose some of their legendary reliability. Why change the Glock "perfection?"

I have nothing personal against Glock. I am not a fan of them simply because their pistols do not fit my hands properly. I can appreciate the advanced engineering (and in turn extremely simple) design, reliability, and parts compatibility, but their pistols are just not my cup o tea. So I am not bashing Glocks, I am just stating indisputable facts.

But your facts are NOT so indisputable as you may believe, though we are largely in agreement.

Huge numbers? Hardly, not when compared to 1911s, S&W M&Ps (the real ones, with cylinders), Berettas, etc., out there. Two of those have been in production for a hundred years or more. If numbers alone were the culprit, they'd be blowing up so frequently that the Glock wouldn't even be a blip.

It's only in the last few years (relatively speaking) that Glock has been leading the police market, and they still don't own it all. S&W ruled for years, first with revolvers, then with their semi-autos. Their guns didn't blow up so frequently just because there were lots in police service. Berettas and Sigs still hold their share of the market. They aren't blowing up with the same frequency.

One thing that isn't in dispute is that it is the design of the weapon causing the problem, the much discussed unsupported chamber, and the claims that it is needed to achieve Glock's reliability. If that were true, then the Glock has a serious weakness in it's basic design. Again, look at other designs, all of which at least equal the Glock's reliability: Beretta, S&W (both their 39 and 59 series and the newer M&Ps), Ruger, Sig, heck, even my Taurus PT92s & 99, H&K, the 1911s. Look at Glocks with aftermarket barrels, with supported chambers. They are not reporting any loss of reliability. The true reason Glock won't correct their design deficiency is, IMHO, Gaston Glock's ego. It wasn't, and isn't, a problem with the 9mm cartridge the gun was designed for. It became apparent when they started chambering bigger rounds in the gun, and instead of fixing quickly and easily as they could have they've spent two decades blaming everything but the gun.

It's that attitude, by the company and the fanboys, that really turns me off to the guns. My G19 was as fine a gun as any I've owned. Still look at them from time to time. They are, IMHO, the perfect size and weight for an all-round defensive and sporting handgun. But, if I do have a problem with my gun, I know that instead of fixing it, the factory is just as likely to blame me for their failures. And they do produce bad guns. On the flips side of my G19s flawless performance was that of my jammamatic G23. Second biggest piece of crap I've owned.

 

[theturtle06]

snip

Joe, let me preface this by saying I enjoy your posts and contributions to INGO. They are well thought out and supported well.

Anyway, continuing the discussion at hand...this is only one example and by no means an overall indicator that my suspicion of changing from factory Glock barrels reduces a Glock's reliability but in THIS classified ad, the seller admits that it initially had trouble. There was apparently work done to the barrel and that solved the problem. I don't regularly post on any other gun-related forums and therefore haven't researched this much beyond INGO. I do however envision this having occurred for others as well. Any posters on glocktalk, ar15.com, ect., have any of you seen reports of this?

I think that the Glock kaboom issue gets blown out of proportion (forgive the pun) by the Glock haters. I am not anything near a Glock hater, as I said in my prior post, I am just attempting to provide a rational and solid argument as to the overt design flaws (JUST MY ) in Glock pistols. The law of averages says that the more of any one thing you have, the more times you will be able to find and repeat a pattern. Lots of SIGS, HKs, ect., may be in LEO use but they are obviously not plagued by the same design flaws () as Glocks and I think both you and I can agree, definitely not in as widespread use as Glocks (again just in the LEO market)

I am not intending to make this out to something bigger than it is. You can find kaboom stories about any guns. I see and cannot argue that in the past, pistols other than Glocks were in the majority of LEOs holsters. Now that is definitely not the case. I have no way of accurately gauging what kind of market share Glock has in the LEO market but I would be surprised if it was not at least 50%. That leaves the other 50% to be a mix of Beretta, M&P (old AND new), Sig, HK...so naturally you will have a higher incidence of kabooms in an LEO setting. The good majority of these articles I read online about Glock kabooms involve LEOs. I have no doubt they happen in the civilian world but I just happen to have read a lot of these articles referencing LEOs. Because these happen so commonly with LEOs they tend to get put into various forms of media that are more readily accessible to non-internet savvy people which helps propagate kaboom horror stories and helping to fan the flames. Part of it also may be that the media feels it is more of an issue when it requires taxpayers money to be allocated to completely refitting the department when they deem one particular unsuitable for duty, as in the article originally cited.

The reliability of supported chambers in modern designs is superb. Hell even my 20+ year old 1911 runs like a top (with good magazines, mind you). So I agree that the ramped barrel may not be integral in every single situation for die-hard reliability.

Good discussion thus far.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

from the article:

"Until the explosion, Ward said he was unaware there were ever any issues with the Glock .45 caliber handguns that all 14 officers in the city are issued, he said.

The guns, some 10 years old, were all every well maintained, Ward said. There are .45 caliber guns built as long ago as World War II that still work very well, he said."

How VERY true!! There are many many thousands of .45 caliber handguns from WWI, and even WWi, that are carried daily, and which function flawlessly. However, not ONE of them is a Glock. There is NOT ONE working Glock from WWII.

Yeah, because Gaston Glock totally founded Glock in WWI right before Hitler's rise to power.

 

[musclecarr]

Police handgun explodes while firing | cincinnati.com | CommunityPress.com

Just when you think it was safe to buy a gLock again

 

[Wabatuckian]

The Glock was designed around the 9mm. 9mm, it should stay.

That said, I'm not sure why the Glock didn't contain the .45's pressures assuming ACP. Around half the 9mm pressure in those loads, 20K PSI or so.

GAP is a whole different ballgame. It uses high pressure to achieve ACP velocities.

Josh

 

[AFA1CY]

So, if the .40s are so bad then why don't we hear about more police weapons going KB? The G22 is probably the most used weapon for PD work.

 

[sporter]

 

[kingnereli]

What bothers me most is glocks ability to kaboom with factory ammo. Sure, you pack enough powder in and any gun may have trouble, but there have been an alarming number of cases of glock kb's with factory loaded ammo. It is purely a design problem. That is why posting a picture of any gun that failed due to an overcharged reload as any kind of evidence that glock doesn't have a problem is flawed thinking.

 

[herby31]

just re-read the article from the cinncy news. it doesn't say anywhere that the officer was shooting factory ammo. a friend of the family is a sheriff's deputy here in allen county and he says they turn in spent brass to the department and get reloads for range time, in addition to new factory ammo from time to time. i'm assuming other departments may do the same. if so, who is doing the reloading? do you suppose he/she ever gets distracted? i am not a reloader, but i would imagine it COULD be easy to add too much powder. (reloaders am i right or wrong?) i'm not saying i'm a huge fan of glocks. i like my glock22 ok because i've never had a problem with it. i bought it when i was working armed security because the insurance company wouldn't allow single action pistols, so my colt 1911 was gainst the rules. that being said, i find myself wishing i had bought an all steel double action pistol. it seems to me we don't know enough details about any of these KABOOMS to have anything but a good old fashioned "i know more than you" argument about the cause. we don't know. the internet is a good place for information to change hands, but the whole story doesn't always get posted.

 

[HICKMAN]

just when I was wondering if we'd get to a million posts on INGO by my birthday, more glock threads show up, this won't take long now.

 

[HICKMAN]

wondering if it was a squib and the cop fired again. Seems like with many of the cases of kabooms and various guns, they don't really know what happened.

 

[LawDog76]

just re-read the article from the cinncy news. it doesn't say anywhere that the officer was shooting factory ammo. a friend of the family is a sheriff's deputy here in allen county and he says they turn in spent brass to the department and get reloads for range time, in addition to new factory ammo from time to time. i'm assuming other departments may do the same. if so, who is doing the reloading? do you suppose he/she ever gets distracted? i am not a reloader, but i would imagine it COULD be easy to add too much powder. (reloaders am i right or wrong?) i'm not saying i'm a huge fan of glocks. i like my glock22 ok because i've never had a problem with it. i bought it when i was working armed security because the insurance company wouldn't allow single action pistols, so my colt 1911 was gainst the rules. that being said, i find myself wishing i had bought an all steel double action pistol. it seems to me we don't know enough details about any of these KABOOMS to have anything but a good old fashioned "i know more than you" argument about the cause. we don't know. the internet is a good place for information to change hands, but the whole story doesn't always get posted.

He might want to double check on where the brass is really going. Last I was informed, reloads were not to be fired through duty weapons. Officers were allowed to take spent brass home and reload it for their personal weapon but not for their Sig P220's. Everytime I have walked onto the range to qualify, I have been handed factory new ammo.

 

[LawDog76]

Police handgun explodes while firing | cincinnati.com | CommunityPress.com

Just when you think it was safe to buy a gLock again

And just when I was seriously thinking about buying a Glock. Looks like I better stay with my sigs.

 

[mrussel]

Police handgun explodes while firing | cincinnati.com | CommunityPress.com

Just when you think it was safe to buy a gLock again

The article said "there are 45s made as far back as WWII that are still functioning" That SHOULD read,there are 45s made nearly 100 years ago that are still just fine.

 

[sertboy354]

I have carried mine for 5 years know never had one problem

 

[glockman49]

Glock

These stories have been around for ages. Every now and then a Glock comes apart. Usually there is a good reason and we never hear the full story.

 

[XtremeVel]

These stories have been around for ages. Every now and then a Glock comes apart. Usually there is a good reason and we never hear the full story.

I tend to believe there is ALWAYS a good reason... Something either went wrong or failed. Here in about a hour, I'm heading out to put 300-400 rounds thru my G35. I will be shooting .357 sig out of it using 10.5 grains of Blue Dot. I won't even say what the chrony says these 125 gr bullets travel at simply because I think we need a new chrony and this one is lying to me. LOL But, I wish a betting man would bet me a case of Yuenlings whether this Glock would hold up or not. Been a few weeks since I last ran out of it and could use some soon.

 

[Glock19Dude]

Why do people bash Glocks? If you don't like them fine but, this just seems to be a bunch of Glock haters trolling on here. I haven't done the research (nor will I spend the time to) but I'm pretty sure that there have been other manufacturers that have had a problem like this.

 

[JBusch8899]

Glocks are no more prone to failure than any other firearm, despite the anecdotal evidence. To date, there has been no empirical evidence proving otherwise.

As with any firearm, the proper ammunition and maintenance is required. Failure in both, can, and will most assuredly, result in catastrophic failure.