Free Floating a AR

[Grease]

In the scenario that CountryBoy was explaining, he wouldn't need an armorers wrench or pliers. There are several handguard manufacturers that use a standard barrel nut which he could leave in place, eliminating the need for the wrench. Daniel Defense, Fortis, and Midwest Industries are just a few off the top of my head. Like he said, use a dremel (have done it myself a time or two) on the d-ring and it'll come off real easy.

How is he going to remove the D-ring without removing the barrel nut? You have to take off the snap ring and spring behind that. Only way to do that is by removing the barrel nut hence the need for the armorers wrench

 

[T-DOGG]

How is he going to remove the D-ring without removing the barrel nut? You have to take off the snap ring and spring behind that. Only way to do that is by removing the barrel nut hence the need for the armorers wrench

By cutting the delta ring off with a dremel.

 

[Grease]

By cutting the delta ring off with a dremel.

Not a good idea. Do it the right way the first time, every time. When he nicks or cuts into the barrel nut, and he will, it will weaken the barrel nut and also set up a point for corrosion. Worse yet, he could slip and hit the upper receiver ruining that, adding an unnecessary expense and wasted time.

the barrel nut is a vital part of the rifle that undergoes tremendous stress, why weaken it by taking a short cut?

besides, he may select a rail that has a proprietary nut and the whole assembly would have to be removed anyway.

 

[wsenefeld]

It's not as hard as you're making it out to be. Granted, I wouldn't recommend Michael J. Fox go about it this way, but anybody who is capable of swapping handguards is capable of doing this without damaging the rifle in any way.

 

[Classic]

Did mine that way with no problem but looking back I don't think it was any faster or easier. Not that hard to take off the barrel nut or replace it.

 

[Leo]

If you need to maintain the A2 service rifle appearance, check out Frank White at Compass Lake engineering or John Holliger at White Oak precision. Stock appearing full float handguard systems are really common with National Match Highpower competitors. With modified handgaurds they are less than $175, last I looked. Since the front sling swivel gets moved to the float tube, the benefit of a floating barrel stays even when shooting from sling stablized positions.

 

[WyldeShot]

I built a rifle and bought a nice AR multi-tool that included the tools into the price of building my AR. I have since free floated 2 ARs. Both with fixed front sights and delta rings. No cutting was needed on either one. I did have someone help push the delta ring back while removing the barrel nut.

I guess pay someone to do it if this is going to be the only thing you do on your rifle and don't plan on getting another one. Otherwise, invest in the tool and learn. I am not a handy person but watched some YouTube videos and asked questions on here.

 

[Grease]

When buying an armorers tool, watch for the cheap Chinese knock-offs, quite a few are out there with too much paint in the barrel nut teeth. This is leading to stripped out barrel nuts and other damage.

I use a pin style barrel nut tool by PRI and it works great, I am not a big fan of the "all in one" type wrenches.

 

[Grease]

Barrel nut wrench

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...m16-barrel-nut-wrench-prod27412.aspx?psize=48

Upper vice block clamp, make sure you insert the plastic "bolt" and close the dust cover, the metal pin will help you along the gas tube with the barrel nut.

Wheeler Fine Gunsmith Equipment Delta AR-15 Upper Vise Block Clamp 156444. Wheeler Fine Gunsmith Equipment Gunsmithing Equipment.

FSB tool, optional but makes life a little easier.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...ont-sight-bench-block-prod20727.aspx?psize=48

 

[CountryBoy19]

Not a good idea. Do it the right way the first time, every time. When he nicks or cuts into the barrel nut, and he will, it will weaken the barrel nut and also set up a point for corrosion. Worse yet, he could slip and hit the upper receiver ruining that, adding an unnecessary expense and wasted time.

the barrel nut is a vital part of the rifle that undergoes tremendous stress, why weaken it by taking a short cut?

besides, he may select a rail that has a proprietary nut and the whole assembly would have to be removed anyway.

Really? I can clearly tell you never even considered how simple this actually is or even gave any thought to how it would actually be done. You just automatically jumped into a defensive "not a good idea" mode because that is what your intuition told you. It really is super simple; hundreds, if not thousands, of gun owners have done the very thing I described when upgrading to a free-float rail that uses the standard barrel nut. It's not complicated, my 9 year old nephew could do it... although he is pretty skilled with a dremel tool. Do you even own a dremel?

 

[chezuki]

"Do you even Dremel bro?"

 

[bwframe]

Why not just put out the notice here on INGO that you need to borrow the appropriate tools for your specific parts? It's been my experience that you'll get a half a dozen offers to loan the tools and one or two to actually lend experience and help you do it.

 

[slowmo]

Something else to consider before getting started is your current barrel/flash hider. You should be fine if you have a 16" barrel. If your barrel is 14.5" with a pinned flash hider, then things get more complicated. If your flash hider is pinned, then you would have to drill it out and re-pin it when you are done. Probably not worth it unless you have tools and are capable.

 

[Grease]

Really? I can clearly tell you never even considered how simple this actually is or even gave any thought to how it would actually be done. You just automatically jumped into a defensive "not a good idea" mode because that is what your intuition told you. It really is super simple; hundreds, if not thousands, of gun owners have done the very thing I described when upgrading to a free-float rail that uses the standard barrel nut. It's not complicated, my 9 year old nephew could do it... although he is pretty skilled with a dremel tool. Do you even own a dremel?

Son, I have been turning wrenches since you were ****tin green. 27 years as an aircraft mechanic and electrician....so I may have used a tool or two.

 

[Grease]

"Do you even Dremel bro?"

thats funny!

Why not just put out the notice here on INGO that you need to borrow the appropriate tools for your specific parts? It's been my experience that you'll get a half a dozen offers to loan the tools and one or two to actually lend experience and help you do it.

good point, lots of nice people here with a lot of experience

Something else to consider before getting started is your current barrel/flash hider. You should be fine if you have a 16" barrel. If your barrel is 14.5" with a pinned flash hider, then things get more complicated. If your flash hider is pinned, then you would have to drill it out and re-pin it when you are done. Probably not worth it unless you have tools and are capable.

Good point, I was going on the assumption of it being a 16" barrel, glad you brought that up.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Why not just put out the notice here on INGO that you need to borrow the appropriate tools for your specific parts? It's been my experience that you'll get a half a dozen offers to loan the tools and one or two to actually lend experience and help you do it.

Don't forget about the gunsmithing tool loaner thread, there haven't been a lot of people post in it but it's a good place to find smithing tools as well.

Son, I have been turning wrenches since you were ****tin green. 27 years as an aircraft mechanic and electrician....so I may have used a tool or two.

Ah, got it, age and working in an unrelated field have made you an expert in gunsmithing and even though you've never done something, or even thought about doing it, you are an expert on the subject. I'll try to stay in my place from here on out... carry-on

 

[Grease]

Don't forget about the gunsmithing tool loaner thread, there haven't been a lot of people post in it but it's a good place to find smithing tools as well.

Ah, got it, age and working in an unrelated field have made you an expert in gunsmithing and even though you've never done something, or even thought about doing it, you are an expert on the subject. I'll try to stay in my place from here on out... carry-on

what is the gun made of? Aluminum and steel.

what are aircraft made of? Aluminum, steel and composites.

are aircraft delicate? Yes and no, mostly yes.

are rifles, especially the AR-15 upper, made of thin aluminum delicate? Yes

does a dremel cut off wheel spin at a high rate of speed? Yes

do cut off wheels grab and then "walk" causing damage to areas other than the intended work area? Yes, even if being very careful, it is easy for the wheel to grab and hit/damage/destroy items.

is there a better, safer although maybe not easier way to get the job done? Yes but, why take shortcuts when you can do the job correctly. Especially when failure of a part could lead to injury or death of you of, God forbid someone else

being an aircraft mechanic does not make me a gunsmith anymore than being a gunsmith makes a person an aircraft mechanic. I will put my ability to use tools way, way above that of most gunsmiths not because I think I am better than them but, because I have done this job for almost 3 decades and, on aircraft, everything you do, you do with the thought of, "if this fails, I have killed people." I approach everything from a safety first view and generally do not like shortcuts.

i am not trying to get into a dick measuring contest with you, not at all. In the end, we both have the same goal of trying to help the guy out, just different approaches, that's fine. If the guy wants to take your advice, I have at least made him aware of the risks he faces in doing so. My way has risks too in that if he doesn't torque the barrel nut back down correctly, bad things could happen. I just feel my way has more risk mitigation and less unorthodox methods to accomplish the same goal.

besides, we don't even know which rail he is going with. In the end, thanks for your input.

 

[CountryBoy19]

are rifles, especially the AR-15 upper, made of thin aluminum delicate? Yes

Wow, just when I was starting wonder things about you, you've proven them to me...

AR15 delicate? What crack are you smoking? People use these in war-zones, have you seen what these weapons look like when used in war-zones? They are FAR from delicate, I've been there. I've worked on weapons IN war-zones. I've seen what they looked like after serious abuse. I've NEVER seen one present a dangerous situation to the operator due to the issues you're alluding to ...

do cut off wheels grab and then "walk" causing damage to areas other than the intended work area? Yes, even if being very careful, it is easy for the wheel to grab and hit/damage/destroy items.

is there a better, safer although maybe not easier way to get the job done? Yes but, why take shortcuts when you can do the job correctly. Especially when failure of a part could lead to injury or death of you of, God forbid someone else

Superficial scratches and scuffs are NOT, in any way, shape, or form going to make an AR15 dangerous. You've been working in the aircraft industry WAY too long if you think that.

being an aircraft mechanic does not make me a gunsmith anymore than being a gunsmith makes a person an aircraft mechanic. I will put my ability to use tools way, way above that of most gunsmiths not because I think I am better than them but, because I have done this job for almost 3 decades and, on aircraft, everything you do, you do with the thought of, "if this fails, I have killed people." I approach everything from a safety first view and generally do not like shortcuts.

Aircraft have factors of safety just slightly above 1. A factor of safety of 1 means that if anything isn't perfect failure happens. A factor of safety slightly above 1 means that if anything isn't "nearly perfect" failure happens. Scratches & gouges can absolutely make an aircraft unsafe, scratches and gouges WILL NOT make a firearm unsafe. Don't flatter yourself by telling yourself this is a noble effort and you're only trying to save the guy from injury. I see clearly what is going on here; you made a comment that wasn't well thought out, it was pointed out to you that your comment wasn't well thought out, but rather than swallow your pride you'd rather fight to the death to prove that your incorrect comment is, in-fact, correct. It's not going to work...

i am not trying to get into a dick measuring contest with you, not at all.

Dick measuring contest, fighting to the death to defend your out-of-line comment, they're all on the same page of the book. I don't care what you call it, it's pretty clear what's going on... I'm not the only one that sees it.

In the end, we both have the same goal of trying to help the guy out, just different approaches, that's fine. If the guy wants to take your advice, I have at least made him aware of the risks he faces in doing so. My way has risks too in that if he doesn't torque the barrel nut back down correctly, bad things could happen. I just feel my way has more risk mitigation and less unorthodox methods to accomplish the same goal.

You forgot your risk assessment work-sheet and risk mitigation sign-offs... better go get them quick.

I too work in the air-craft industry; except I'm on the structural engineering side of the house. I know what level of damage an aircraft structure can have and still fly, it's not much. Coincidentally I've worked on weapons a great deal in truly abusive conditions, I know what level of damage a firearm can have and still function safely, it's a LOT more than an aircraft can have...

We're talking about working on a firearm, not an aircraft, not a fine swiss watch, just a simple firearm, that has a factor of safety MUCH higher than an aircraft.

 

[Grease]

Wow, just when I was starting wonder things about you, you've proven them to me...

AR15 delicate? What crack are you smoking? People use these in war-zones, have you seen what these weapons look like when used in war-zones? They are FAR from delicate, I've been there. I've worked on weapons IN war-zones. I've seen what they looked like after serious abuse. I've NEVER seen one present a dangerous situation to the operator due to the issues you're alluding to ...


Superficial scratches and scuffs are NOT, in any way, shape, or form going to make an AR15 dangerous. You've been working in the aircraft industry WAY too long if you think that.


Aircraft have factors of safety just slightly above 1. A factor of safety of 1 means that if anything isn't perfect failure happens. A factor of safety slightly above 1 means that if anything isn't "nearly perfect" failure happens. Scratches & gouges can absolutely make an aircraft unsafe, scratches and gouges WILL NOT make a firearm unsafe. Don't flatter yourself by telling yourself this is a noble effort and you're only trying to save the guy from injury. I see clearly what is going on here; you made a comment that wasn't well thought out, it was pointed out to you that your comment wasn't well thought out, but rather than swallow your pride you'd rather fight to the death to prove that your incorrect comment is, in-fact, correct. It's not going to work...


Dick measuring contest, fighting to the death to defend your out-of-line comment, they're all on the same page of the book. I don't care what you call it, it's pretty clear what's going on... I'm not the only one that sees it.


You forgot your risk assessment work-sheet and risk mitigation sign-offs... better go get them quick.

I too work in the air-craft industry; except I'm on the structural engineering side of the house. I know what level of damage an aircraft structure can have and still fly, it's not much. Coincidentally I've worked on weapons a great deal in truly abusive conditions, I know what level of damage a firearm can have and still function safely, it's a LOT more than an aircraft can have...

We're talking about working on a firearm, not an aircraft, not a fine swiss watch, just a simple firearm, that has a factor of safety MUCH higher than an aircraft.

Ok you win

 

[wsenefeld]

Ok you win

That took way too long.

I almost want to buy an upper now just to make a d-ring dremel cut-off video. I'm sure youtube has already beat me to it though.