Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man

[Phase2]

Governor Cuomo Orders Nursing Homes To Admit Rioters

Families still aren't allowed to visit due to health concerns...

 

[Super Bee]

This is the son of Keith Ellison, Minnesota Att General.

https://twitter.com/jeremiah4north/status/1267152043313172482

Wow nice to see he is being blasted on his own Twitter page. What a douche.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

This is the son of Keith Ellison, Minnesota Att General.

https://twitter.com/jeremiah4north/status/1267152043313172482

Nothing like pledging your allegiance to a terrorist organization. I wish we lived in times where both parties would condemn it, but unfortunately the younger leftists will cheer him on.

 

[jamil]

I was looking through that twitter thread where the numbers per arrest was posted. Someone posted this to rebut that:

Okay. Sure. But that does not take into account the frequency with which people from each population encounters the police. Your chances of being killed by the police are highly coupled with encounters with the police. And the numbers that are per arrest mostly represent that. So then the question isn't, why do police shoot so many blacks compared to whites? They really don't. It is, why do blacks have so many more encounters with police, and therefore more opportunities for things to go wrong?

And there are multiple factors for that too. A higher portion of blacks live in poverty, and crime correlates with poverty, giving blacks more opportunities to contact police. So it's not a race problem, it's a problem of poverty and resulting crime. But, race is still one of those factors, at least a little. For example, stop and frisk, is primarily used in minority neighborhoods where crime is high. White people don't get pulled from their vehicle and have their car searched just for making an improper turn, unless they are actually pulled over for that AND there is reasonable suspicion of some crime. But with stop and frisk cops look for any reason to stop targeted people and frisk them, search their cars, and so on. And that's wrong. But we can't find actionable corrections for problems if we go around blaming the wrong things.

Munging data to make it look like cops are just too racist isn't going to fix the problem of police shooting black people.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jamil again.


We don’t care about facts! The graph clearly shows black people are being hunted down by police double the number of whites!

Im willing to bet the fact most whites live in the country and never see a cop unless they’re called out may play into that figure some also.

 

[Tombs]

Nothing like pledging your allegiance to a terrorist organization. I wish we lived in times where both parties would condemn it, but unfortunately the younger leftists will cheer him on.

Democrats cheer them on.

I don't know how much harder people need hit over the head by reality...
Who runs all these cities where the riots are the most violent?
Who is trying to politically harass police that are just trying to protect the public?
Who was showing their support for Antifa for years until they were declared a terrorist organization?

These people don't just have a different world view, they hate you, want you dead, and they think it's funny.
What did the party call you just for not wanting to support hydrogen hillary? They called you deplorable.

What did they do to your grandparents in nursing homes? They forcibly moved pandemic patients in with them.

Who trumped up the violent rage after Trayvon was killed?
Who trumped up the violent rage after Mike Brown was killed?

I'm just sick of people just brushing off this activity and becoming so desensitized to it they think it's normal.

 

[chipbennett]

I was looking through that twitter thread where the numbers per arrest was posted. Someone posted this to rebut that:

Okay. Sure. But that does not take into account the frequency with which people from each population encounters the police. Your chances of being killed by the police are highly coupled with encounters with the police. And the numbers that are per arrest mostly represent that. So then the question isn't, why do police shoot so many blacks compared to whites? They really don't. It is, why do blacks have so many more encounters with police, and therefore more opportunities for things to go wrong?

And there are multiple factors for that too. A higher portion of blacks live in poverty, and crime correlates with poverty, giving blacks more opportunities to contact police. So it's not a race problem, it's a problem of poverty and resulting crime. But, race is still one of those factors, at least a little. For example, stop and frisk, is primarily used in minority neighborhoods where crime is high. White people don't get pulled from their vehicle and have their car searched just for making an improper turn, unless they are actually pulled over for that AND there is reasonable suspicion of some crime. But with stop and frisk cops look for any reason to stop targeted people and frisk them, search their cars, and so on. And that's wrong. But we can't find actionable corrections for problems if we go around blaming the wrong things.

Munging data to make it look like cops are just too racist isn't going to fix the problem of police shooting black people.

The simple rebuttal here, as you reference, is that Blacks make up about 14% of the population, but commit roughly 50% of all violent crime. The overall black violent crime rate is roughly eight times the overall white violent crime rate.

 

[chipbennett]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jamil again.


We don’t care about facts! The graph clearly shows black people are being hunted down by police double the number of whites!

Im willing to bet the fact most whites live in the country and never see a cop unless they’re called out may play into that figure some also.

Got him for you.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I never expected to see the 13/50 meme on INGO, but I also never expected it to come from Chip.

 

[chipbennett]

I never expected to see the 13/50 meme on INGO, but I also never expected it to come from Chip.

How is referencing FBI UCR stats (and that's where I got the numbers from, long ago) a "meme"? This is an easily provable/disprovable assertion.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I was looking through that twitter thread where the numbers per arrest was posted. Someone posted this to rebut that:

Okay. Sure. But that does not take into account the frequency with which people from each population encounters the police. Your chances of being killed by the police are highly coupled with encounters with the police. And the numbers that are per arrest mostly represent that. So then the question isn't, why do police shoot so many blacks compared to whites? They really don't. It is, why do blacks have so many more encounters with police, and therefore more opportunities for things to go wrong?

And there are multiple factors for that too. A higher portion of blacks live in poverty, and crime correlates with poverty, giving blacks more opportunities to contact police. So it's not a race problem, it's a problem of poverty and resulting crime. But, race is still one of those factors, at least a little. For example, stop and frisk, is primarily used in minority neighborhoods where crime is high. White people don't get pulled from their vehicle and have their car searched just for making an improper turn, unless they are actually pulled over for that AND there is reasonable suspicion of some crime. But with stop and frisk cops look for any reason to stop targeted people and frisk them, search their cars, and so on. And that's wrong. But we can't find actionable corrections for problems if we go around blaming the wrong things.

Munging data to make it look like cops are just too racist isn't going to fix the problem of police shooting black people.

Model based simulations...

 

[jamil]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jamil again.


We don’t care about facts! The graph clearly shows black people are being hunted down by police double the number of whites!

Im willing to bet the fact most whites live in the country and never see a cop unless they’re called out may play into that figure some also.

I can't remember the last time I've encountered a cop. I think it was back when I lived in Missippi. I was doing 65mph on an off-ramp from a highway that had a 55 speed limit. But he didn't drag me out of the car and frisk me. He just gave me a ticket and sent me on my way. In cities which have some form of stop and frisk, if you're a young black male, chances are you're getting pulled out of your vehicle on that stop.

 

[Tombs]

How is referencing FBI UCR stats (and that's where I got the numbers from, long ago) a "meme"? This is an easily provable/disprovable assertion.

Since statistics can't be racist or wrong on their own, the left tries to claim it's just a meme to attempt to discredit it.

I can't remember the last time I've encountered a cop. I think it was back when I lived in Missippi. I was doing 65mph on an off-ramp from a highway that had a 55 speed limit. But he didn't drag me out of the car and frisk me. He just gave me a ticket and sent me on my way. In cities which have some form of stop and frisk, if you're a young black male, chances are you're getting pulled out of your vehicle on that stop.

Why would a cop pull you out of a car if you were obeying his orders?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

How is referencing FBI UCR stats (and that's where I got the numbers from, long ago) a "meme"? This is an easily provable/disprovable assertion.

The 13/50 meme is a crazy oversimplification full of variables to account for the data. It's not the whole picture, but the people that repeat it usually don't care about the nuance. Which is why you, a man of nuance and detail, I wouldn't have expected it from. Also I believe it references specifically murder, not violent crime, in the contexts I've seen it in.

It's more of a general thing that is both outdated and a bit disingenuous. Its also not the data anyone making policy uses

 

[MCgrease08]

This is the son of Keith Ellison, Minnesota Att General.

https://twitter.com/jeremiah4north/status/1267152043313172482

Like father like son. Also worth pointing out that the son is on the Minneapolis City council, so he's not just some ignorant college kid.

But here is his Dad, Keith Ellison, current MN Attorney General.

"I learned it from watching you Dad!"

 

[MCgrease08]

I was looking through that twitter thread where the numbers per arrest was posted. Someone posted this to rebut that:

Okay. Sure. But that does not take into account the frequency with which people from each population encounters the police. Your chances of being killed by the police are highly coupled with encounters with the police. And the numbers that are per arrest mostly represent that. So then the question isn't, why do police shoot so many blacks compared to whites? They really don't. It is, why do blacks have so many more encounters with police, and therefore more opportunities for things to go wrong?

And there are multiple factors for that too. A higher portion of blacks live in poverty, and crime correlates with poverty, giving blacks more opportunities to contact police. So it's not a race problem, it's a problem of poverty and resulting crime. But, race is still one of those factors, at least a little. For example, stop and frisk, is primarily used in minority neighborhoods where crime is high. White people don't get pulled from their vehicle and have their car searched just for making an improper turn, unless they are actually pulled over for that AND there is reasonable suspicion of some crime. But with stop and frisk cops look for any reason to stop targeted people and frisk them, search their cars, and so on. And that's wrong. But we can't find actionable corrections for problems if we go around blaming the wrong things.

Munging data to make it look like cops are just too racist isn't going to fix the problem of police shooting black people.

If there were only some rule somewhere that prevented agents of the state from arbitrarily stopping citizens and submitting them to unwarranted searchs and seizures. It would be great to help protect those in the minority communities, but darn if I couldn't see it applying to all free citizens too.

The legislature should get right on that.

 

[churchmouse]

Like father like son. Also worth pointing out that the son is on the Minneapolis City council, so he's not just some ignorant college kid.

But here is his Dad, Keith Ellison, current MN Attorney General.

"I learned it from watching you Dad!"

So the electorate has precisely the Government the wanted.

 

[chipbennett]

I never expected to see the 13/50 meme on INGO, but I also never expected it to come from Chip.

I just looked it up.

Current white pop%: 72.4
Current black pop%: 12.6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States

2018 white violent crime, total, %: 199,533, 46.2%
2018 black violent crime, total, %: 187,123, 43.3%

https://crime-data-explorer.fr.cloud.gov/explorer/national/united-states/crime

Relative white violent crime rate: 0.638
Relative black violent crime rate: 3.44

3.44 / 0.638 = 5.39

So, I revise my numbers. Based on 2018, the violent crime rate for black criminals is down to only five and a half times that of white criminals.

(Keep in mind, though, that 8.5% of violent crimes in 2018 have offenders of unknown race. So, there's a pretty big margin of error here.)

 

[Phase2]

The 13/50 meme is a crazy oversimplification full of variables to account for the data. It's not the whole picture, but the people that repeat it usually don't care about the nuance. Which is why you, a man of nuance and detail, I wouldn't have expected it from. Also I believe it references specifically murder, not violent crime, in the contexts I've seen it in.

It's more of a general thing that is both outdated and a bit disingenuous. Its also not the data anyone making policy uses

Please answer the question. It is a good one and if Chip is wrong, it would be worthwhile to understand why.

 

[chipbennett]

The 13/50 meme is a crazy oversimplification full of variables to account for the data. It's not the whole picture, but the people that repeat it usually don't care about the nuance. Which is why you, a man of nuance and detail, I wouldn't have expected it from. Also I believe it references specifically murder, not violent crime, in the contexts I've seen it in.

It's more of a general thing that is both outdated and a bit disingenuous. Its also not the data anyone making policy uses

I just pulled the actual numbers for 2018 from FBI UCR. The numbers are reasonably close to what I originally said, and to what you claim to be a meme.

And it is as much the "whole picture" as the chart previously posted was, about likelihood of death by police, by race. It is wholly justified to control police killings by violent crime rate (or even overall crime rate), because police officers almost exclusively interact with - much less, kill - people who are engaged in (violent) criminal activity.