Interesting. And completely different from every other report I've seen.
State argues Floyd had low level of drugs in body compared even to others who lived
After much toxicological jargon, we’ve arrived at the point.
The state is arguing, with the help of their witness Dr. Daniel Isenschmid, a forensic toxicologist, that even though evidence showed George Floyd was found to have fentanyl and meth in his body at the time of his death, it wasn’t in high amounts, compared to cases even where others stayed alive afterward.
Mr Floyd’s level of meth in his body was in the bottom 5.9 percent of people in DUI cases, Mr Isenschmid explained, and had a ratio of fentanyl in his body well below the ratio normally found in both post-mortem and DUI cases involving the drug.
A major part of the defence’s case is that Mr Floyd died from a drug overdose, rather than from the knee pressed into his neck.
Apparently the Fentanyl was 11 nanograms/milliliter (or .011 micrograms/ml).
According to this Medscape link:
Sublimaze (fentanyl) dosing, indications, interactions, adverse effects, and more
Medscape - Pain-specific dosing for Sublimaze (fentanyl), frequency-based adverse effects, comprehensive interactions, contraindications, pregnancy & lactation schedules, and cost information.reference.medscape.com
Dosing for Fentanyl starts at .5 micrograms/ml and goes up from there. That is, .011 micrograms/ml is less than what can be prescribed at a hospital, apparently.
Two different things here. You are comparing the concentration of the drug in its injectable form of .5mg/ml to what his blood concentration was 11ng/ml. Similar to saying that your beer is 5% ABV and you only had a blood volume of .1%. As far as I can find the 11ng/ml blood levels should be significant.Apparently the Fentanyl was 11 nanograms/milliliter (or .011 micrograms/ml).
According to this Medscape link:
Sublimaze (fentanyl) dosing, indications, interactions, adverse effects, and more
Medscape - Pain-specific dosing for Sublimaze (fentanyl), frequency-based adverse effects, comprehensive interactions, contraindications, pregnancy & lactation schedules, and cost information.reference.medscape.com
Dosing for Fentanyl starts at .5 micrograms/ml and goes up from there. That is, .011 micrograms/ml is less than what can be prescribed at a hospital, apparently.
So, as you know, I'm not an anesthesiologist. And, frankly, Hough probably has had some as clients, so he may have more insight.Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but wasn't that the content in his blood rather than the dose he had taken?
Concentration: 0.2-2 ng/mL (adverse effects occur at >2 ng/mL)
This is the important part: "Concentration: 0.2-2 ng/mL (adverse effects occur at >2 ng/mL)"So, as you know, I'm not an anesthesiologist. And, frankly, Hough probably has had some as clients, so he may have more insight.
Perhaps more importantly, the prosecution needs to make the case.
There is also this page in Medscape that describes the pharmacology:
Sublimaze (fentanyl) dosing, indications, interactions, adverse effects, and more
Medscape - Pain-specific dosing for Sublimaze (fentanyl), frequency-based adverse effects, comprehensive interactions, contraindications, pregnancy & lactation schedules, and cost information.reference.medscape.com
Or not.Then add in the effects of methamphetamine, and you've got a pretty deadly cocktail.
Well, his complaining about not being able to breathe started well before he was put on the ground, so obviously something else was causing that. A rational explanation would be the level of drugs in his system, combined with partially blocked arteries in his heart would be just as likely, if not moreso, to cause his distress. At any rate, it should be enough to create "reasonable doubt" that Chauvin's actions caused his demise. Especially since it has come to light that Chauvin's knee appeared to be on his shoulder rather than his neck.Or not.
And this is one of the issues that can cut both ways. Ok, maybe he lapsed into an overdose situation during the 9 minutes... if that's true, he certainly wasn't resisting anymore.
This isn't really me arguing, but illustrating that juries are fickle. What you describe is entirely plausible.Well, his complaining about not being able to breathe started well before he was put on the ground, so obviously something else was causing that. A rational explanation would be the level of drugs in his system, combined with partially blocked arteries in his heart would be just as likely, if not moreso, to cause his distress. At any rate, it should be enough to create "reasonable doubt" that Chauvin's actions caused his demise. Especially since it has come to light that Chauvin's knee appeared to be on his shoulder rather than his neck.
Understood, and that's why I think that at most, he could be found guilty of some kind of negligence in rendering or calling for aid from EMTs. I don't think it rises to the level of murder or really even manslaughter, just based on what has been presented so far. Just my non-professional opinion of course.This isn't really me arguing, but illustrating that juries are fickle. What you describe is entirely plausible.
But a juror might also hear that and conclude that, even though Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe (putting Chauvin on notice), then Chauvin puts him in a position that makes it harder for him to breathe.
One of the things the jury is asked to determine is whether Chauvin's actions were dangerous and without regard to human life. That might fit.
That was covered in yesterday's testimony. The link posted up thread to Branca's recap is a good place to start. Here is it on LegalInsurrectionThis isn't really me arguing, but illustrating that juries are fickle. What you describe is entirely plausible.
But a juror might also hear that and conclude that, even though Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe (putting Chauvin on notice), then Chauvin puts him in a position that makes it harder for him to breathe.
One of the things the jury is asked to determine is whether Chauvin's actions were dangerous and without regard to human life. That might fit.
The doctor said that of 2000 people arrested for DUI (Fent) the average intoxication level was 9.5+ ng/mL, and that there were dozens from that group who tested higher than Floyd. Floyd was a doper right? Why isn’t it plausible that he had an tolerance at least equal to those persons that survived?So they found some witness they could pay to say the dose was low? That is so ridiculous. His blood had 11 ng/mL in it. That is very high. People have died of fentanyl overdose with levels of 3 ng/mL.
He not only had fentanyl at 11 ng/mL but also norfentanyl at 5.6 ng/mL along with methamphetamine and morphine. Holy crap, he didn't have enough time left to commit more crimes even if he was in a hurry.
Why isn’t it plausible that he had an tolerance at least equal to those persons that survived?
Or his shoulder blade if you believe the bodycam closeups that were also presented and that the prosecution's own witness said appeared to be legit.Chauvin was putting a good amount of weight on Floyd’s neck.
I didn't watch that so I don't know what he said.The doctor said that of 2000 people arrested for DUI (Fent) the average intoxication level was 9.5+ ng/mL, and that there were dozens from that group who tested higher than Floyd. Floyd was a doper right? Why isn’t it plausible that he had an tolerance at least equal to those persons that survived?
A couple of my Use of Force friends conducted the same experiment on each other. No worse for wear.Well ain't that somethin ?