Finally we have a LEGAL directive on how to deal with armed citizens.

[Bung]

It doesn't have anything to do with LEO opinion. Carrying a handgun in Indiana concealed or open without a LTCH is illegal. The officer can still approach and ask, when seeing someone carrying, no matter what IMPD policy is.

Driving a car without license is illegal. Should they be allowed to do random stops to verify?

 

[JMoses]

Driving a car without license is illegal. Should they be allowed to do random stops to verify?

My word, in the little time I've been here, how many times does this have to be discussed. Do a search here and read.

 

[TheSpark]

What department got that memo?

Also, did some officers actually confiscate live ammo for no reason? Would that not be theft? I would think if an officer refused to give back ammo, or anything else, that citizen would be able to file charges against the officer.

 

[lonehoosier]

What department got that memo?

IMPD

 

[Booya]

It doesn't have anything to do with LEO opinion. Carrying a handgun in Indiana concealed or open without a LTCH is illegal. The officer can still approach and ask, when seeing someone carrying, no matter what IMPD policy is.

This is what I always thought, but based on the letter in OP the Chief is saying that's not the case. He's not saying it's dept policy, he's saying it's legally not the case.!?

My word, in the little time I've been here, how many times does this have to be discussed. Do a search here and read.

Amen.

 

[Denny347]

What department got that memo?

Also, did some officers actually confiscate live ammo for no reason? Would that not be theft? I would think if an officer refused to give back ammo, or anything else, that citizen would be able to file charges against the officer.

Some officers would take the rounds out of the mag before returning, handing the ammo back loose and the pistol field stripped.

 

[Denny347]

This is what I always thought, but based on the letter in OP the Chief is saying that's not the case. He's not saying it's dept policy, he's saying it's legally not the case.!?

All I know is that if I conduct myself as written in the directive (regardless of what department I work for) , I won't be violating any rights and my chances of getting sued or legal trouble are slim. If I don't, well, that's on me. This seems like common sense to me. Hell, why would I blink at an OCer buying milk or buying gas? It's when I stop you for something else that I might care, casing a house, fight/disturbance...etc. In the absence of clear case law, it is our OPINION that this is the legal way to handle these situations. Another department might feel otherwise but I am quite confident that we are standing on solid ground here.

 

[Destro]

Unfortunately, after flashing the pink, the conversation doesn't always end.

it doesn't always have to, depending on the articulable facts and circumstances regarding the particular encounter

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Great stuff, Denny. Thanks for the info. Copied and placed in my pocket constitution right next to my "no guns no cash cards".

Tried to rep but: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Denny347 again.

 

[Destro]

Great stuff, Denny. Thanks for the info. Copied and placed in my pocket constitution right next to my "no guns no cash cards".

Tried to rep but: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Denny347 again.

what do you intend to save it for?

 

[rockhopper46038]

All I know is that if I conduct myself as written in the directive (regardless of what department I work for) , I won't be violating any rights and my chances of getting sued or legal trouble are slim. If I don't, well, that's on me. This seems like common sense to me. Hell, why would I blink at an OCer buying milk or buying gas? It's when I stop you for something else that I might care, casing a house, fight/disturbance...etc. In the absence of clear case law, it is our OPINION that this is the legal way to handle these situations. Another department might feel otherwise but I am quite confident that we are standing on solid ground here.

I like it!

 

[ryknoll3]

Malone v. State is the one I was thinking of.

Yes that's the one that talks about the seizur of a firearm. It has nothing to do with stop a OCer to ask to see LTCH. Again I just want to make sure people that don't live in Indy this does not apply to them.

Also, Malone v. State covers a situation that happened at the owner's house. IC treats carry on your own property and carry in public differently (no LTCH needed to carry in your home/on your property) so the cops didn't have any PC or RAS that anything illegal was going on.

 

[j706]

FWIW- this directive is common sense for most reasonable officers. But sometimes an agency needs to spell it all out for those that are a little lacking in the common sense dept..

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

what do you intend to save it for?

To straighten out the confused.

 

[Destro]

To straighten out the confused.

Just remember it only applies to IMPD, not other Indiana or Marion County agencies

 

[Sirindu]

Just remember it only applies to IMPD, not other Indiana or Marion County agencies

Maybe this is a stupid question... I get the "not other Indiana agencies" part, but what other Marion County agencies are we talking about?

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Just remember it only applies to IMPD, not other Indiana or Marion County agencies

Not my intent. When you OC, you sometimes get questions from regular folk so that provides real value to me. It would be unlikely that I would use it for a LEO interaction, which is equally, if not more unlikely. Most of them don't notice, or don't react, IME.

I understand your train of thought, though, and thanks.

 

[lonehoosier]

Maybe this is a stupid question... I get the "not other Indiana agencies" part, but what other Marion County agencies are we talking about?

Sheriff?

 

[cce1302]

Maybe this is a stupid question... I get the "not other Indiana agencies" part, but what other Marion County agencies are we talking about?

other police departments in Marion County? Beech grove, Speedway maybe.

 

[Denny347]

Maybe this is a stupid question... I get the "not other Indiana agencies" part, but what other Marion County agencies are we talking about?

Cumberland PD, Speedway PD, Beech Grove PD, Lawrence PD, Southport PD, IPS Police, Butler University PD, IU Police Indianapolis, Marion University Police, University of Indianapolis PD, State Capitol PD,.