Federal Form 4473 Revision Forces Some People to LIE.

[JetGirl]

So as of July 9th, FFLs had to start using a new version of the 4473. One difference (the main one, really) is that “race” is now split into two fields. Question 10a is “Hispanic or Latino” or “NOT Hispanic or Latino”. Question 10b goes on to the other options like “Asian, Black, White,” etc…
Tonight a guy came in and did paperwork on a Kel Tec and for 10a he checked “Hispanic or Latino” because that’s what he is. When I called it in, the Call Center Rep asked what was answered on 10a, so I said “Hispanic or Latino”. Fine.
Then she asked for the answer of 10b… I replied “Nothing.”
She said, “10b is a required field. We can not proceed.” I said, “Well, the customer IS Hispanic and nothing else applies. What is he supposed to do?”
I was quickly shuffled to customer service who told me that in the required field, if nothing else applied, the applicant had to mark “White”.
I said, “But he’s Hispanic…not White”. She got really snippy with me and said if I had a complaint, I needed to call my local ATF field agent and lodge my complaint (which my boss will be doing tomorrow).
Basically, from here on out all data collected for Hispanics that do not claim any other race, will fall under being “White”.
How do ya like that?

 

[MrsGungho]

wow
that is a HUGE issue

 

[littletommy]

Just think of the millions upon millions of our dollars that went into the making of the decision to change that form!

 

[Fletch]

Basically, from here on out all data collected for Hispanics that do not claim any other race, will fall under being “White”.
How do ya like that?

...and a small corner of my brain chirped, "because George Zimmerman is not a Hispanic, he's a WHITE Hispanic."

 

[Scutter01]

Tell me again why they're asking for race on the 4473?

 

[scottka]

Wow... Seems silly. Keep us updated on what they say.

 

[Colt556]

WTH!!! Sounds like the FEDs might be trying to manipulate gun ownership or crime statics in some way. That is simply preposterous! Does this have anything to do with the Trayvon Martin White/Hispanic bruhaha???

 

[tv1217]

Hispanic isn't a race.

Sammy Sosa and Cheech Marin are both Hispanic. Sosa would be black/"african american" and Cheech would be white

 

[tv1217]

Tell me again why they're asking for race on the 4473?

I too would like to know this.

 

[Thumper]

Sounds like fast and furious,Somebody has to pay.

 

[atvdave]

Tell me again why they're asking for race on the 4473?

^^^^^^^^
This.....

 

[Stschil]

Should be optional like it is on job apps.
I actually don't think it's legal to require that information under EEO

 

[jedi]

Hispanic isn't a race.

^This!

Also what happens if you have a person of Mexican descent born in the states fill out 10a as NOT Hispanic/Latino and 10b Asian/White but you clearly see they are "Mexican" (ie. speak Spanish, are brown, etc..).

Is this OK?

 

[shooter521]

Basically, from here on out all data collected for Hispanics that do not claim any other race, will fall under being “White”.
How do ya like that?

According to the federal government, "Hispanic" is not a race, it is an ethnicity. This is in keeping with the changes made to the 2010 US Census form.

If someone of Hispanic ethnicity traces his ancestry back to "the original peoples of Europe," he would mark "white" as his race. People who trace their ancestry back to "the original peoples of North or South America, including Central America" would mark "American Indian or Alaska Native". This was covered in the letter and FAQ that accompanied the new 4473 (which we originally did not get; I had to call ATF Industry Operations in Indy and request that it be faxed to us).

Interestingly, when this issue first came up, we asked the NICS examiner if an answer was required for 10b if they marked Hispanic or Latino for 10a, and after she checked with her supervisor, we were told that it could be left blank. Right hand, meet left...

 

[JetGirl]

we asked the NICS examiner if an answer was required for 10b if they marked Hispanic or Latino for 10a, and after she checked with her supervisor, we were told that it could be left blank. Right hand, meet left...

Holy !!!

 

[MrsGungho]

Holy !!!

no kidding.
I am so glad I am out of this crap

 

[tv1217]

^This!

Also what happens if you have a person of Mexican descent born in the states fill out 10a as NOT Hispanic/Latino and 10b Asian/White but you clearly see they are "Mexican" (ie. speak Spanish, are brown, etc..).

Is this OK?

Who knows, you could ask two different people in the ATF and get 3 different answers. I bet if someone of Australian aboriginal descent tried to fill out the form, it would just burst into flames.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Interestingly, when this issue first came up, we asked the NICS examiner if an answer was required for 10b if they marked Hispanic or Latino for 10a, and after she checked with her supervisor, we were told that it could be left blank. Right hand, meet left...

Sounds about right....


for a bureaucracy, that is...

 

[Mark 1911]

All government forms are notoriously cumbersome and confusing, why should the ATF forms be any different?. As I was reading the OP, I kept thinking about what I had to go through to bring my Canadian bride into the United States. I know its not funny, its really really NOT funny, but it is just SO SO typical of government forms - I just had to chuckle while reading this.

Anyone who has ever had to go through the immigration process, or like myself who married a non-US citizen and went through the process to bring them into the country, knows exactly what I mean. They make it so difficult, and then another branch of the feds want to grant amnesty to those who are here illegally????? How is that fair, especially to those who went through the grief and painfully slow and expensive process to do it all legal?? Does anything the feds do make any sense at all?? AARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!

 

[JetGirl]

This was shown to me by somebody who saw it at TheHighRoad, where I guess it's being discussed, too;