Dream of Clean Power Hits Headwinds

[dleeharrison]

FYI - there is an article in today's Indianapolis Star (IndyStar.com | The Indianapolis Star | Indianapolis news, sports, business, community, entertainment, yellow pages and classifieds. Serving Indianapolis, Indiana) on the trials and tribulations of a company trying to obtain a loan for starting up a company in Indiana manufacturing wind turbine components. What a great administration we have running this country!

 

[melensdad]

Here is the direct link to the artice: clean power dreams hit headwinds | IndyStar.com | The Indianapolis Star

 

[shibumiseeker]

FYI - there is an article in today's Indianapolis Star (IndyStar.com | The Indianapolis Star | Indianapolis news, sports, business, community, entertainment, yellow pages and classifieds. Serving Indianapolis, Indiana) on the trials and tribulations of a company trying to obtain a loan for starting up a company in Indiana manufacturing wind turbine components. What a great administration we have running this country!

You can't blame any administration for this kind of crap. Even starting a small business has so many hurdles and roadblocks that it is IMPOSSIBLE to do it properly without violating some bureaucratic rule or regulation of some sort. Thanks to another post I found out yesterday that there's an unclaimed property report I was supposed to be filing annually. Given my experience with owning and running my own small business for almost ten years now I am surprised anyone would want to do so, let alone start up a multimillion dollar one. Half the cost is bureaucratic

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Run a couple of small businesses.... couldn't agree with you more. Don't know if you have employees, shibumiseeker - but add employees and you get a whole new level of PITA. Most all of it courtesy of gubbamint.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Run a couple of small businesses.... couldn't agree with you more. Don't know if you have employees, shibumiseeker - but add employees and you get a whole new level of PITA. Most all of it courtesy of gubbamint.

I had employees, I found out that the extra paperwork it takes to have just one employee took almost as much time as it did just to do the work myself. At one point I had 2 full time and 5 part time employees. Every time I thought I had all of the paperwork done I'd find some form or report or tax I didn't pay and have to go back and correct it. Now the girls pitch in when I get too far behind and I shrank the business (on purpose) to be at the point I can handle it myself).

 

[Doug]

I read the article.
It is only right and proper that overseas companies, especially companies in Europe, get all the business for making wind turbines. The overseas companies will pay much higher taxes than the U.S. companies and will, therefore, have lower overall profits. If U.S. companies are allowed into this field, they may make profits which will allow the rich to oppress the poor by hiring them and making them work for wages. This must be avoided. It is better for a man to be dependent on the government for survival than to be oppressed by an employer.
Welcome to Hope and Change.

Doug

 

[Leadeye]

Everytime I see one of these things I am amazed. Don't have any idea how much they cost but the gear boxes and bearings must be engineering works of art to hold up under that kind of stress and still turn easily enough to be efficient.

 

[hornadylnl]

Everytime I see one of these things I am amazed. Don't have any idea how much they cost but the gear boxes and bearings must be engineering works of art to hold up under that kind of stress and still turn easily enough to be efficient.

That's what amazes me about these wind farms going up in just a matter of a few months. There is a good sized private wind mill down the road from me and I've never once seen it turn in 10 years. My guess is that it burnt up and the owner decided the cost of upkeep and or replacement is more than the cost savings of having it.

Now back to these wind farms. Logic would tell you that whatever the life span of these things is, out of the thousand or so put up at the same time, they will all start to break at the same time. If the owners of these wind farms are anything like public utilities, they won't be saving anything back for future maintenance and replacement. Once all of these things all start going out at the same time, they won't be able to fix them without raising electric rates sky high.

 

[CarmelHP]

The government shouldn't be in the business of loaning to anyone, foreign or domestic. If wind turbine power was such a great idea there wouldn't be any problems getting investors. It can only survive on subsidies.

 

[melensdad]

Everytime I see one of these things I am amazed. Don't have any idea how much they cost but the gear boxes and bearings must be engineering works of art to hold up under that kind of stress and still turn easily enough to be efficient.

I'm not sure it is possible for them to be "efficient" if you define efficient as being cost competitive when compared to other forms of electrical generation. I've seen data that suggests that the ONLY way to justify a wind farm/wind production of electricity is IF it receives some sort of GOVERNMENT SUBSIDY or GOVERNMENT TAX CREDITS. It was a few years ago that I was reading that, perhaps it is possible today to cost justify a wind turbine, but honestly I doubt it. I strongly suspect that the Indiana wind farms have some sort of federal backing in terms of tax credits and/or subsidies.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

That's what amazes me about these wind farms going up in just a matter of a few months. There is a good sized private wind mill down the road from me and I've never once seen it turn in 10 years. My guess is that it burnt up and the owner decided the cost of upkeep and or replacement is more than the cost savings of having it.

On a back road to Ft Wayne there is a small farm that has two mills on the property, both broken. I was curious with many questions (thinking of installing something smaller for myself) so I stopped and talked the the farmer's wife. She said that they can't afford to fix them, but would love to get it done because it would offset (not eliminate) their electric bill. Both mills are on 60 - 80 ft. towers. Whatever rate the farmer is saving money at, the Mrs. Farmer said that it was going to take them about 5 years to get the monies together.

I'm not sure it is possible for them to be "efficient" if you define efficient as being cost competitive when compared to other forms of electrical generation. I've seen data that suggests that the ONLY way to justify a wind farm/wind production of electricity is IF it receives some sort of GOVERNMENT SUBSIDY or GOVERNMENT TAX CREDITS. It was a few years ago that I was reading that, perhaps it is possible today to cost justify a wind turbine, but honestly I doubt it. I strongly suspect that the Indiana wind farms have some sort of federal backing in terms of tax credits and/or subsidies.

MD, I have read nearly the same thing in several places, print and internet. I have seen figures written saying that a person could count on a mill giving them approximately 20% - 40% of their electrical load on a direct feed, less if it was a battery system used at night. The four persons that I have talked to have all said that they installed theirs because of the tax breaks. If it wasn't for the breaks, they could not have afforded the mills. By the time the credits run out they expect have recouped their investment costs.

 

[hornadylnl]

On a back road to Ft Wayne there is a small farm that has two mills on the property, both broken. I was curious with many questions (thinking of installing something smaller for myself) so I stopped and talked the the farmer's wife. She said that they can't afford to fix them, but would love to get it done because it would offset (not eliminate) their electric bill. Both mills are on 60 - 80 ft. towers. Whatever rate the farmer is saving money at, the Mrs. Farmer said that it was going to take them about 5 years to get the monies together.

MD, I have read nearly the same thing in several places, print and internet. I have seen figures written saying that a person could count on a mill giving them approximately 20% - 40% of their electrical load on a direct feed, less if it was a battery system used at night. The four persons that I have talked to have all said that they installed theirs because of the tax breaks. If it wasn't for the breaks, they could not have afforded the mills. By the time the credits run out they expect have recouped their investment costs.

I don't doubt that the mills help but I look at it like this. If it cost you $10k to put the thing up and you saved $100 a month, it would take you a little over 8 years to break even. Will this thing work 8 years without a major overhaul? If the lifespan on this were over 10-15 years without any major maintenance expenses, it would pay to fix them. But by not fixing them, it tells me that it isn't really saving them anything.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I don't doubt that the mills help but I look at it like this. If it cost you $10k to put the thing up and you saved $100 a month, it would take you a little over 8 years to break even. Will this thing work 8 years without a major overhaul? If the lifespan on this were over 10-15 years without any major maintenance expenses, it would pay to fix them. But by not fixing them, it tells me that it isn't really saving them anything.

Yep, you said in a few words what I said with many.

At this point, it doesn't save them enough money to lay out the money to fix it. +1 for shortening my post!

 

[DustinG]

There was some city that tried made its city run off wind power, but the residents now are not wanting it because of all the noise pollution.